Jen Riday: You're listening to the Vibrant Happy Women podcast, episode number 111. Today I'll be talking with Mutale Bingley all about creating an authentic vision for your life. Stay tuned.
Intro: Welcome to the Vibrant Happy Women podcast, stories of vibrant women living happy lives. And now, your host, Jen Riday.
Jen Riday: Welcome back to Vibrant Happy Women. I'm Dr. Jen Riday, host of the Vibrant Happy
Women podcast, mom of 3 boys and 3 girls, in that order, and I am so glad you're here. You know, being a mom can cause you to lose yourself and, of course, we know it leads to massive burnout because we're trying to do everything for everyone. But Vibrant Happy Women is all about shifting yourself back into that place of taking care of yourself, loving yourself and thereby healing your relationships and finding yourself again. I am so glad you're here. On our last episode, I talked with Anne Adametz all about thriving in the midst of chaos, feeling your emotions and honoring them, but also, how to find peace when life gets hard; that is episode 110, if you want to go back and listen. And also, I wanted to share our review of the week. Our review of the week is from Inspired Lady, and she wrote, “I stumbled on your podcast by accident and I'm so glad I did. The first time I listened, I was working out at the gym and the guest was talking about fitness and training. I've continued to listen and I have found that each podcast has a great message and it keeps me interested and inspired.” Well, thank you, Inspired Lady, and thank you for leaving that review. And everyone else, the reviews matters so much and I would love to invite you to leave a review and maybe we'll read yours on the air. You can do so at jenriday.com/iTunes. There is some good stuff coming for you listeners of Vibrant Happy Women. Have you ever wanted to have a book club that centers around a podcast episode? Well, that is what we're creating for you; virtual groups where you can get together and talk about each podcast episode, plus so much more. And information about that will be coming in future episodes, so stay tuned. Also, I want to get your feedback on the podcast. So we have created a survey and you can win $200 simply by filling it out. That is that jenriday.com/survey. I want to know what you think, what topics you want me to cover, so I can make the Vibrant Happy Women podcast very specific for your needs as a listener. So please take time today to fill that out at jenriday.com/survey.
Alright, well, without further ado, let's go ahead and jump into this interview with my friend, Mutale Bingley. Mutale Pauline Bingley was born in Botswana in southern Africa to Zambian parents. She's one of several children between both her parents and she attended nursery school through 5th grade in Zimbabwe, and she attended the latter years of primary school and all of secondary school in Lusaka, Zambia. As a young child, she dreamed of migrating to the US, which became a dream come true through the power of intention. Mutale’s dream continues to expand as she seeks to clarify her purpose to help others on their journeys toward a more meaningful life. Welcome to the show, Mutale.
Mutale Bingley: Hi, Jen, glad to be on the show.
Jen Riday: And Mutale and I already know each other and so it's kind of fun to have you on, but let's jump in and talk about your favorite quote.
Mutale Bingley: Yeah, sure. So my favorite quote is from my literary angel, Maya Angelou. And this is from her book ‘I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings’, and it is, “There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you.”
Jen Riday: Hmm! That's great.
Mutale Bingley: Yeah.
Jen Riday: So let's hear your story then because we want to make sure it's told. (Laughs)
Mutale Bingley: Absolutely. I'm so glad you asked, Jen. Well, the reason I absolutely love that quote is because I, like Maya, I'm a writer; I'm a creative writer. And though none of my work has been published as of yet, I know that with an equal amount of persistence and dedicated effort, my work will eventually be ready to submit to a publisher. The stories I write are of marginalized women and girls on the African continent. The women I write about are women who live in poverty, prostitutes who work in unsafe conditions, victims of war, child slaves, victims of gender-based violence, and women with undiagnosed and untreated mental health issues, and also, women who suffer from HIV/AIDS but don't have access to antiretroviral medications which could prolong their lives. So because these social issues are so important to me, but more importantly to the people whose lives they represent, bearing an untold story is indeed a great agony.
Jen Riday: And their story needs to be spoken, and you're in a really powerful position to do that, more so than many of them who are still in Africa, would you say?
Mutale Bingley: Absolutely. I always like to say, you know, “To whom much is given, much is expected.”
Jen Riday: Ah, yes, yes. Well, so Mutale, I love your story of getting to the US. It was a dream and, wow, you made it happen! So tell that story; I find it so inspiring.
Mutale Bingley: Absolutely. It seems like such a long time ago now, and yet as I was preparing for this podcast, I was able to, you know, walk myself through, all the way back to actually 6-year-old Mutale; which is really interesting to think of that. But at 6 years old, I was able to do what many of the guests you've had on your show have talked about, which is co-creating a vision for the life I wanted. So I was able to manifest the life that I actually lived today at the age of 6. And it's really incredible for me to think about, but I had this really big dream. I knew that I wanted more than what I had in Africa.
Jen Riday: And what was that? What was life like for you at age 6? Let's paint that picture.
Mutale Bingley: Well, one of the challenging things that I went through as a child was that I… my father was an alcoholic. He's still living, so he is an alcoholic; he continues to drink to this day. But he was very abusive, both verbally and physically towards my mother. And I knew that that wasn't a life that I wanted for myself. I saw the pain and the agony that she went through. But I also noticed that there was a sense of voiceless-ness among women in my community. So not just my mother, there were other women who I saw who equally had similar struggles or, you know, even as I started to get a little older, by the age of 12, I had known death. You know, there was a lot of people in my community who were dying as a result of HIV/AIDS, which still continues to be prevalent in that part of the world. So these women were either not in a position to negotiate safer sex with their partners or they were just uneducated, uninformed, and as a result, lost their lives and left orphans. And just being able to see this grim picture day in and day out, I started to ask myself, “Can there be something other than what I am seeing today? And what is it that I can do from where I stand to sort of create something different, to give my life purpose?
Jen Riday: Oh, yes.
Mutale Bingley: Yeah.
Jen Riday: So you co-created a vision for the life you wanted, I can't even imagine at age 6, seeing this picture you just painted for us. And that word ‘voiceless-ness’, oh, that made me feel so small and empty. I mean, that's a powerful word; voiceless. Wow!
Mutale Bingley: That's correct.
Jen Riday: Yeah! And here we are speaking with our voices with total empowerment. What a contrast! And so, age 6, what did you co-create in your vision at that time?
Mutale Bingley: Well, it's funny because, in retrospect as I look back, I really didn't have any specific steps besides an actual dream. I was painting a vision in my mind about what I wanted my life to look like, but I didn't have any actual steps until at age 12; so I need to tell the whole story. At age 12, I wrote to the United Nations.
Jen Riday: Oh.
Mutale Bingley: And I asked them… I asked them to sponsor me as an undergraduate student so I could leave; I just desperately wanted to get out of the country. And they wrote back very kindly and told me that they did not sponsor undergraduate students; which then led me to, not lose the dream, but continue to, you know, build upon that. When I was 17, which is a very significant age for most people, I think students around the world, but for me, it meant that I was graduating from high school; which was a pivotal point of, “What next?” At 17, I went to a college in my community and sought to enroll in the School of Journalism there because that's always been a strength of mine, writing. And I was told that, because I wasn't very good in math, the only thing I could do, go to school for, was library studies. And…
Jen Riday: Why do you need math for journalism? (Laughs). That's funny.
Mutale Bingley: It is very funny. A lot of things that happen back then didn't make a lot of sense until now, that I'm older.
Jen Riday: Okay.
Mutale Bingley: But I… I was told I couldn't go to school for journalism and… because they had filled up all the spots with other people who…
Jen Riday: Oh, yeah.
Mutale Bingley: … who had potentially bribed them to get into the school, and I didn't have enough money to bribe anyone.
Jen Riday: Ooh, yeah.
Mutale Bingley: So in any event, I fell into a deep depression at the time because I almost felt as though I was losing my dream to make something of myself completely. And there was some point when I didn't really think I was going to build this dream by leaving the country. I wanted to make myself something other than what I had seen growing up; meaning, I didn't want to be the powerless woman who ended up in a marriage where I wasn't happy or wasn't able to negotiate safer sex or had to be forced to have children if I didn't want to. I wanted to be an empowered woman wherever I was in the world.
Jen Riday: Yes.
Mutale Bingley: When I realized that I was being given limited options, something began to propel me. Something inside of me began to push me to go in search of an alternative. And so that's exactly what I did, I started off by, what I called my ‘24 hour-rule’, which is I purged myself of any negative emotions inside of me; any feelings of failure or… or desperation. I cried and I cried it out with my mother. And then I asked her for a small loan so that I could start a business. And I don't know what the equivalent of that is, but she gave me 12,000 kwacha, which was enough for a crate of soft drinks. So I purchased Coca-Cola, Sprite and Fanta, which seems really funny.
Mutale Bingley: But this is how I started my business from a backpack. I went to a container, bought these soft drinks, and put up a sign on the gate, on the metal gate in front of my house, and I started selling these drinks. People would come to the gate, knock at the gate, and it's a very hot climate; so it was a lucrative business. From one crate of Coca-Cola, I went to 2 crates, and so on and so forth. Pretty soon, I was selling eggs and buns and a few items that people who couldn't travel to, you know, the supermarket could get within the neighborhood.
Jen Riday: Mm-hmm.
Mutale Bingley: I used that money for postage stamps. I would write to schools in the United States in the hopes that somebody will write me back and I'll get the kind of response that will eventually get me the goal that I'm looking for, because I wasn't going to be a librarian in Lusaka.
Jen Riday: Yeah.
Mutale Bingley: (Laughs). So it is from that place of wanting something so badly and there were so many events that happened, you know, within that time frame; some of which I can't remember. But what I know was that there was this drive; this drive to want better, to want to achieve something outside of what I had. Eventually, you know, I heard that back form a school. And the listeners might be curious, “How did she get these addresses?” Well, I joined a library called the Martin Luther King library in Lusaka and that's… that's where I started researching all of the colleges and universities in the United States until I heard back from a liberal arts school in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, called Chatham University now. And they responded favorably and offered me a small scholarship; it wouldn't cover the entire cost of my tuition. And it's from there that I knew that I was not going to be limited to other people's stories; that I was able to create a story of my own. And it was the most frightening thing that I've ever done in my life because, again, I didn't realize that just by sending this letter somewhere out there, a favorable response would come back and work in my favor.
Jen Riday: Hmm. So what happened next? I mean, you got this scholarship but it wasn't enough. That didn't just squash the dream?
Mutale Bingley: No. If anything, it ignited it more. I obviously didn't have enough resources based on what I've shared with you to cover the cost of my tuition. My mother was gracious enough to sell the home that she grew up in. And the amount of money that she came up with was only enough to cover my transportation. She did know a few relatives who were able to, you know, support me for at least the first month of my stay here in the United States. Once I arrived here, I had to become a survivor. Basically, I had talked to the school administration and told them that I wasn't in the position to cover most of my tuition. So they gave me work-study jobs where I worked in the library.
Jen Riday: Ah! Funny.
Mutale Bingley: I worked in the library, I babysat on campus. I did a lot of odd jobs, I cut grass; I did a lot to survive. You know, if it was your typical immigrant story.
Jen Riday: Wow! And you were what, 18 years old at this point?
Mutale Bingley: I turned 19 when I arrived in the United States. So it was just like a week after arrived, I turned 19. So I was still very young, still very naïve, very clueless about money.
Mutale Bingley: Very clueless about social situations, how to get around. But I still find it really remarkable that, you know, and… and maybe I even take it for granted today that, through that initial conviction, through that story that I created as a young child, I was able to push through so many obstacles that I am able to sit here today with you and really activate my voice around what it is to believe in yourself against all odds.
Jen Riday: Wow.
Mutale Bingley: I can tell you, I was very scared when I first arrived. It was a cold… it was in the middle of winter in Pennsylvania. I had a really flimsy coat so I was very, not at all prepared for the winter in the United States. I didn't have any gloves. The side of my dorm room was not as furnished as 2 of my roommates; I pretty much just had my bed and my suitcase.
Jen Riday: Uh-huh.
Mutale Bingley: I didn’t have a CD player or a phone or anything else. And it was a lot to adjust to. There were many changes that were foreign and different to me, and yet, there was still that perseverance, that resilience that allowed me to still be here today.
Jen Riday: Yeah. So what degree did you graduate from Chatham with?
Mutale Bingley: Well, I didn't actually graduate from Chatham.
Jen Riday: Oh, okay.
Mutale Bingley: It took me 2 schools, actually 3 schools, and 5 years to complete a undergraduate degree in Media Communication. My first year of Chatham, I, you know, used the money from my babysitting and working in the library to pay what. I could I still owed them when I left Chatham to go to the Community College of Allegheny County, where I took some classes before I finally graduated at Duquesne University.
Jen Riday: Ah, nice!
Mutale Bingley: I want to say that, it was all through the generosity and kindness of people that I was able to get from point A to B. I met with the president of Chatham University to discuss my circumstances and she was gracious enough to, you know, let me leave without having paid what I owed the school.
Jen Riday: Thank goodness.
Mutale Bingley: I think it's only been about 6 years now since I actually paid them off in full. But, you know, I left with a debt and then I went on to another school where I only took a few classes. And while I was there, I met a professor who took interest in my story. And because of him, he made some contact with someone he knew at Duquesne so that I was able to finish my education with some assistance; some financial assistance.
Jen Riday: Yeah.
Mutale Bingley: So I was very lucky.
Jen Riday: So I know you lived in Alaska at one point, how did you get to Alaska, and kind of the quick version of what happened, and then now you're in Georgia? So tell us about, you know, where life is taking you.
Mutale Bingley: So in all of that time, you know, there's been some in-between stuff. I went from Duquesne University to being married. I married my husband and we moved to Nevada first, and from Nevada, we moved to California, and from California, we moved to Alaska, which is where we lived for almost 9 years. Our second child was actually born on Joint Base Elmendorf in Alaska. So while in Alaska, I got my degree in Clinical Social work and I worked there as a clinical social worker. So it's been quite the adventure. I know a lot of people often say, “How did you go from Africa to Alaska?” and I sometimes have to summarize that story.
Jen Riday: That's funny though! (Laughs).
Mutale Bingley: (Laughs)
Jen Riday: You know, citrus trees and temperature and everything.
Jen Riday: And so I love what you said about choosing the story of your life and not just accepting another person's story. And how are you continuing today to choose the story of your life?
Mutale Bingley: I think the most important thing for me is the living mindfully; infusing deliberate intentions into your life. There's a saying in Bemba, and if you allow me I can say the Bemba version and I'll translate it into English. And it is… Bemba is my native tongue by the way. It's, “(Speaking Bemba language).” And what that means in English is, “The extent to which you can admire someone's house is the roof.”
Jen Riday: Ooh! (Laughs). Yeah!
Mutale Bingley: The only thing that you can admire about someone's house is their roof; you have no idea what's going on, on the inside. And I know that, as an immigrant, part of what I had to go through is an acculturation; which means, I had to lose some of myself to win acceptance in a foreign country. I had to show up as people sort of expected me to show up in order to win favor in employment, in order to win favor in friendships even. And all along that way, I struggled with the fact that there were pieces of myself that were being lost, that weren't really me. And today as a mature woman who doesn't have to sort of, you know… I really am okay with who I am. I really love who I am, and the work of loving me is far more important than trying to convince someone to like me, if you get what I'm saying.
Jen Riday: Oh yeah. So how do you love yourself?
Mutale Bingley: I think loving myself is daily an intentional work. Loving myself is about not forming comparisons, like I was trying to say with that quote. It's about really being intentional every day, waking up and finding that place that is open and assessing, “What is it that I need to give myself today in order to live in congruence with my values?” It's about opening up yourself enough and sorting out what you need and what you don't need from your thoughts, and going with the thoughts that serve you. And sometimes, for me, it's really about, if I have a persistent thought that keeps resurfacing… you know, recently, I lost a family member and so some of the thoughts that might resurface may be related to grief. That might mean I may have to spend a little time with that thought so I can nurture it; I can validate the thought. And in so doing, I am validating myself. I'm taking ownership of being more loving towards me, so that I can… you know, I can radiate my true self and attract the right people and the right things in my life.
Jen Riday: Mutale, I want to hear more. You talked so beautifully about being intentional every day and choosing the thoughts that serve you and validating your own thoughts. How do you find time for deep thinking and reflection like that in our busy life? I mean, you're a mom of 2, and how do you make that time that's so critical?
Mutale Bingley: That's a really good question. And I think I had to learn how to do that because I wasn't doing it.
Jen Riday: Right.
Mutale Bingley: I wasn't find the time. I mentioned earlier that I'm a social worker and I… earlier in my career, I was pouring so much into my work that I really and filling my own cup. It's when I was depleted that I realized I needed to be more deliberate about carving out the time; currently not working, so I have the ability to create the space that I need in my routine to find that quiet time. And the word I keep coming back to is that, you have to be deliberate, you have to sort of guard that time. There's so many different ways to do that today. For instance, my husband and I have an app on our phones called Cozy, where we can actually schedule activities related to the family, and I just block out, you know, mom's meditation.
Jen Riday: Nice!
Mutale Bingley: Because that way, it is not only been communicated to everybody who needs to know in my family, but it also is something that holds me accountable and allows me to go back to it as needed. And if I didn't do it that day, I can say, “Hey, what was going on there that caused me to not stick to it?” I know that when I really am focused and dedicated I have more clarity, I am more intentional, and I am more mindful in how I live.
Jen Riday: That's beautiful; the Cozy app. Okay, Mutale, you are on a mission to tell other women's stories. What do you see happening in the future with that work?
Mutale Bingley: It's interesting. I… I hope 5 years from now that I'll be back on the show.
Jen Riday: Oh! Cool!
Mutale Bingley: I’ll actually tell you that I have written a book, if not sooner than that… I have published a book, I beg your pardon. As I stated earlier, there's no greater agony for me than seeing these women remain voiceless. And I want to see this work in woman's hands. I think as we become more of a global society, we need to be woke, we need to understand how something that's happening in Zambia impacts us here in the United States. We need to be more responsible consumers of information. And each of us have a responsibility to each other, in some way, to be sort of a healthier global society. So I really hope that I can get my work out into the wider community.
Jen Riday: Hmm, I hope so too. In fact, I know you're going to do it; I can feel it.
Mutale Bingley: Thank you.
Jen Riday: So let's talk about a few of your favorite things, Mutale. So let's start with your morning routine. What do you like to do in the morning to fill that cup you were talking about?
Mutale Bingley: So my morning routine, every time I hear this on your podcast I think of Chewbacca mom who was pretty candid and said, “You know, I do what everyone else in the world does is, they get up and they pee.”
Mutale Bingley: But… I thought that was funny. My morning routine begins with helping my youngest daughter, Kalia, get ready for school. She's usually the first person I see when I opened my eyes in the morning. She's 8 so she's at the age where she can get herself ready for school. But both her and I enjoy that bonding time, especially in the morning, it's very important for us. And, you know, to tell the truth, listening to her beautiful mind while I do her hair, really just enriches me. She just seems to be so much more assertive and, you know, full of life so much more than I was at her age. So she's got a lot of her own great insights that I appreciate. Both of my children attend public schools and ride the bus, though sending them off with, you know, some really good vibes and positive energy is part of my morning routine. Once both my children are off to school I like to really slow things down for myself by, you know, retreating to a quiet place where I can enjoy a cup of chamomile tea or rooibos in a room where not even my cats can interrupt me. So it doesn't have to be the same room, but it simply has to be a room with a door where I can listen to, you know, my inner voice. And in that time, I just take… I just take stock of what's annotated on my heart. And I attend to it as needed either through self-soothing, self-compassion, affirmations, meditation, or prayer; whatever it is that comes to me at the moment. The most important key for me is to have structure so that I don't let my mind wander, but that I really am intentional about anchoring myself; and I usually do that by breathing.
Jen Riday: Hmm, nice.
Mutale Bingley: Just make sure that breath keeps me rooted to the ground. And then once I've done that, I take my vitamin C in my iron. (Laughs)
Jen Riday: Mmm, yeah.
Mutale Bingley: Because I am iron deficient. Then I head off to the gym where I run anywhere from a mile to a mile and a half. And I do have a fitness trainer currently, so I do some core strengthening work. And I find that for as long as I'm consistent with this particular routine, I'm rejuvenated and energized for the remainder of the day. So the key, again, is consistency.
Jen Riday: Do you feel like the gym workout is the most rejuvenating part or it's every bit of it?
Mutale Bingley: That's a really good question. I think they all work hand in hand. The gym is also another spiritual thing for me because I find it hard to run; I'm not a runner, so I do it mindfully. And even as my muscles are hurting, you know, that is sort of a rebirthing process for me.
Jen Riday: Hmm!
Mutale Bingley: So how I start my day, sort of feeds the other aspects as well.
Jen Riday: Yeah. And it just goes to show you can make anything mindful. (Laughs)
Mutale Bingley: Exactly.
Jen Riday: You know, really if you think about it, I had 6 un-medicated births.
Mutale Bingley: Wow!
Jen Riday: I had to be really ,really freaking mindful to get through the pain. So it's true though what we just said, you know, mindfulness can do anything. Yeah, yeah.
Mutale Bingley: For sure.
Jen Riday: So funny. So, Mutale, what is your favorite book?
Mutale Bingley: I have a lot of favorite books. This is actually pretty hard. But I was thinking of one that would be relevant in terms of overcoming fear, as that is something that has been crucial to my own self-love journey. So I'd like to preface my book recommendation with another quote from Maya Angelou. And it says, “Life loves the liver of it. You must live and life will be good to you.”
Jen Riday: Hmm.
Mutale Bingley: Yeah. Isn’t that powerful?
Jen Riday: Yeah.
Mutale Bingley: In order to discover our full potential in this life, we have to show up; we have to be open to life as it is and not as we would like it to be. And this takes courage to overcome the barriers that hold us back. And among them is fear; fear of rejection, fear of not being good enough, fear of not wanting to try because you might be ridiculed or shamed. And some people even fear success. So to anyone who has any of those feelings or wants to try to overcome them, I encourage you to live your best self by working towards loving yourself. Your life of the light and we need you to shine your light on the world; be empowered today. And I believe one way to do this is through a book that I think is helping me. It's called ‘The Fear Cure’ by dr. Lisa Rankin. And her work focuses on turning our fear into courage by cultivating courage into daily practice as a medicine for the body, mind, and soul. Her book is filled with great hands-on, action-oriented exercises, such as converting pessimism into optimism by reviewing the patterns of our beliefs and how these things sort of affect the consequences of our actions. So it's really great book; I think it would be a great resource for your listeners.
Jen Riday: ‘The Fear Cure’ by dr. Lisa Rankin. Well, great, thank you. I like that. I haven't read that one. And now, Mutale, let's talk about what it means for you to be a vibrant and happy woman.
Mutale Bingley: The Sun. (Laughs)
Jen Riday: Oh yeah!
Mutale Bingley: I love stocking up on vitamin D; such a great energy booster. But being a vibrant happy woman, for me, is cherishing every moment as it unfolds and living an intentional life daily to be more authentically the love of my life; so, in short, choosing daily to practice self-love. You know, happiness isn't a feeling. Feelings are temporary; they come and go like waves. Happiness is not found in material things or in our jobs. Happiness is something that permeates from within and it's also cultivated from within.
Jen Riday: Yes! “Starting within,” I couldn't agree more. Well, Mutale, if people want to know more about you or they maybe have a story for you that you might want to put in your book, someone from Africa is probably listening, someone from I don't know…
Mutale Bingley: Well, they can find me @therealmcpolly, which is on Instagram. And that's a good platform to just communicate ideas about helpful things that might perhaps propel me towards getting my work published or if there's any insights about specific things that they have experienced from their own travels to Africa, you know, I'm really open to widening my own scope of knowledge. I've been away for over 17 years so networking is really important to me with like-minded women.
Jen Riday: Nice. Well, thank you so much Mutale. I love what you're doing, I love your courage, I love that you love your own heart and are generating that happiness there. And I hope everyone really feels some deep inspiration from what you shared today; because I know I did.
Mutale Bingley: Thank you so much, Jen. I really love your show. And thanks for this opportunity. It was great being on the show.
Jen Riday: Yeah, we'll see you in 5 years; can’t wait.
Jen Riday: Yeah, alright. Bye-bye, Jen.
Mutale Bingley: Take care.
There's so many beautiful amazing women in this world and I'm so honored to get to interview people like Mutale who have a story to share. She exercised such vision and courage to get herself to the US at age 18; so amazing! So I want to challenge you to think about, “What is your vision? What are you working toward for your future?” Also, don't forget to fill out the questionnaire all about the podcast. That's at jenriday.com/survey. This is your chance to tell me what you want more of, what you want less of, what you think, and I will try really hard to tailor the podcast to your needs. Again, that's at jenriday.com/survey. I will see you next time, and until then, make it a phenomenal, fantastic, fun day. Take care.
Outro: Thanks for listening to the Vibrant Happy Women podcast www.jenriday.com.