136 Transcript: How to Rise Above Pain and Loss with Alissa Parker (Sandy Hook Mom)
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J: You're listening to the Vibrant Happy Women podcast, episode number 136. We're talking all about mindfulness and gratitude in this episode, especially when it comes to dealing with past hurts and traumas. And you're going to love my guest, Nichole Crawford, who has some great thoughts on the matter, especially when she says, “Being a mom is harder than being in a war zone,” and she knows by experience; stay tuned.
Intro: Welcome to the Vibrant Happy Women podcast, stories of vibrant women living happy lives. And now, your host, Jen Riday.
N: Welcome back to Vibrant Happy Women, the place to be if you want to get your sparkle back, take better care of yourself, and shine in your life, not just survive, but to thrive; so glad you're here. Last week, I spoke with Debbie Reber all about the neuro-diverse child. You know, we all think there's this idea of normal, quote/unquote ‘normal’, but really, it's time we start celebrating our diversity and the diversity of thought and behavior and actions in our children. They don't have to become ‘mini-me’s, they don't have to adopt all our same values, in fact, when we celebrate all the good things in them, we relieve some of our own stress trying to get them to match up to our expectations. If you didn't listen to that yet, go back and do so at jenriday.com/135.
Well, today's guest is Nichole Crawford and she spent time in the military and experienced a number of traumas. Obviously, being in the military in a war zone is a trauma in and of itself, but she was also sexually assaulted by another service member and then she came home and was dealing with all of the PTSD from that situation and trying to be a mom; holy cow. Being a mom can be hard enough, but if you're carrying past baggage, wow, it can be really tough. Well, Nichole is going to tell us how she got through that experience and learned how the power of gratitude and deep mindful acceptance of emotions as well helps us to cope with those hard experiences, but not only that, has a number of other amazing benefits. So if you'd like to be happier, you'd like to be more patient with your kids, you'd like to just feel amazing about your life, stay tuned for this episode because this episode you're going to learn how to accept yourself with your flaws and limitations, how to establish a digital gratitude practice, and how to process and feel your emotions instead of stuffing them; and so much more. Well, without further ado, I want to dive in and talk with Nichole Crawford today; you're going to love this interview.
Welcome to the show, everybody, welcome back to Vibrant Happy Women. I'm talking to Nichole Bowen Crawford today who lives near Seattle, Washington, and she's a veterans activist and the creator of Gratitude Morning, the app that makes gratitude simple. She's also a mom of 4, so she and I have a lot of… in common with our busy lives. And I want to welcome you to the show, Nichole.
N: Thank you.
J: Thanks for being here. I can't wait to talk about Gratitude Morning, but first, let's dive in with your favorite quote.
N: Sure. I think that there are so many, but I chose, “Today is a wonderful day, I've never seen this one before,” that's Maya Angelou.
J: Ah, I love that one and I love her; cool. Do you quote that one to your kids?
N: I should, no.
J: Yeah. Well, you know, one day, one day. Sometimes our self-development and personal growth is in our heads first and then we share it. Well, so tell us your story, you know, how you've gotten to where you are and the work you've done in the world so far.
N: I think it's been a long journey for me. It started as I was 22 when I enlisted in the army, and pretty quickly into it, I enlisted right after 9/11. I ended up being one of the first groups to cross into Iraq during Operation Iraqi Freedom on day 2 of the war. And, you know, my job was just to fix computers and I never imagined I would be there in a war zone, so I was deployed for a year. And just being in a combat zone is traumatic in itself, and then, you know, in addition while I was serving, I was sexually assaulted by another service member and then I just experienced a lot of harassment. So it took a few years of me coming home, getting out of the military, serving my enlistment and before I started to experience pretty significant symptoms from the PTSD. I mean, I didn't even know I had it, it took years for me to figure it out.
N: But it just kind of… it was like it was delayed onset so I just managed to stay so busy that I didn't feel it.
N: Until one day, it just showed up as just this giant trauma that I couldn't escape, like to the point where I suddenly went from being so busy and so functional to just not.. like I couldn't get out of bed, I had to stop working, I was suicidal, and it was just all of the trauma that I hadn't faced, all of the feelings I hadn't faced and didn't know about. So I began healing, I began my healing journey and it's been really slow. And part of my healing journey was to help other women veterans going through what I was going through because the military doesn't really prep you for what happens after service, like after a deployment.
N: You know, it's just completely unexpected and I actually thought something was really wrong with me. I didn't realize that it was normal to have those feelings and reactions and sadness.
Unfortunately, it's completely normal and a lot of veterans are ashamed about it because, you know, we have this identity that we're supposed to be the strong ones.
N: But it really takes a lot of vulnerability to face our feelings, and that's something that you're not shown or taught to do in the military.
J: Yeah. My goodness, you're in a foreign country, that's traumatic enough to be in this whole new world, but then, you know, death and destruction all around you and then the sexual assault, oh my gosh. So you feel like it all just came crashing down on you and your body said, “Oh, you ignored this, now you're not going to function.” So what did PTSD look like for you, you know, when this all comes crashing down and later?
N: Mm-hmm. Well, it look like I went from not like sleeping just fine to nightmares every night, waking up at 2:00 AM or sometime around then from a nightmare with my heart racing so much that I couldn't get back to sleep till about maybe 6:00 or 7:00 AM.
N: So it was also extreme sleep deprivation.
N: It was my body reliving the trauma every night during those dreams. It was a lot of depression and sadness.
N: I was contemplating, thinking about suicide.
N: It got so hard that that’s… that was my everyday thought process with, “Gosh, it would just be easier to just not be here.” And, you know, I just I didn't leave the house much, I had so much anxiety. So it took so much for me just to get help, to walk in the doors of the VA and say, “Hey, this isn't okay. I'm…” you know, and it just… there was some crossroad eventually into it (maybe a few months into it) where I was like, “Okay, this is super annoying that I'm constantly thinking about suicide.”
N: “Either… either I'm going to do it or I'm going to do everything I can to get better, and I need to choose one.” You know, it's not… I don't want one of those wishy-washy answers. So I decided that I was going to live and I was going to do everything I could, everything, and I was going to get better. And so I started my healing journey and… you know, and I found a therapist that practiced something called HBLU.
N: Which is healing from the body level up, and we did a lot of tapping work and somatic type of healing, like kind of just releasing it from the body level; the traumas.
N: And, you know, I did everything. I had a Reiki, shamans, cranial sacral treatments, you know, seminars and workshops, personal development seminars and workshops, I got really involved. And slowly, you know, as my healing progressed, it got better. I mean, my goal originally was to completely not have PTSD anymore, and what ended up happening more than anything was that I actually just learned to accept myself the way that I am, even with some limitations PTSD. Because I still actually do have it, even after all the work and the treatment, and it's still there, I'm just really good with self-care and… and managing it. And, you know, I have… I'm in a place, my life is totally shifted. I was single at the time and I wanted to be a mom and get married and have kids, and I’m married and I've got kids and I'm happy now.
N: Yeah, there was a lot of little things that contributed along the way, but eventually, I found a gratitude practice which was just like a day… I would write a daily list of things that made me grateful, what was working. Even though a lot wasn't, I started to just quickly focus… I started with just 3 things that made me happy that… that were beautiful in my life. And it was sometimes just simple like that I could walk or that I had hot water. So, you know, eventually, I think that practice helped retrain my brain to start focusing on the good and, you know, just made me happy, helped make me happier.
J: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
N: And actually, it's a practice, it's not something that that just goes away.
J: Well, I want to dive in deeper there and talk about the Gratitude Morning in just a moment, but first, let's go back and talk a little bit more about PTSD.
J: Do you feel like the male veterans, you know, have similar symptoms? Is there a difference for gender at all that you've seen or it's all similar?
N: Yeah, you know, they are very similar in a lot of ways, but I think that the women in the military, the women are more… are more likely to commit suicide now.
N: More likely to be homeless and that's because, you know, on top of dealing with the traumas of war, they're also dealing with being in a system that's really pretty sexist and there's a lot of harassment, sexual assault. You know, there's a big problem in the military with sexual assault and, you know, it's pretty archaic system where it's not safe to report your sexual assault without retaliation.
N: And that… that hasn't been changed.
J: Aaw, wow.
N: So legislators are still working on it, but it's kind of like atrocious. It's… yeah, very archaic.
J: Did you… I mean, I realize this is just your experience and it might not represent all women, but did you feel equally valued in the military, aside from all the harassment that might have been happening?
N: I think by some people, yeah, I mean…
J: Depends on the person, yeah.
N: Yeah, there were a lot of great people I served with. And some people didn't think that I should be there because I was a woman; because of my gender.
J: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
N: Absolutely. And some people, I think, thought that, but didn't say it, but it came through quite clear.
J: Did you feel like you kind of almost had to overcompensate for being woman and being more tough, both in and then after you were in the military; after your deployment?
N: Yes, absolutely, I had to compensate while I was serving. I learned to be really just funny and brush things off and, yeah, you just learn to just act like it was okay when it wasn't.
J: Oh man, that's so sad. And do you see that happening… let's say, come away from the military thinking, but do you see that among moms, for example, you learn to act like things are okay even when they aren't?
N: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean you go into being a mom and… and you think it's going to be this like the way the media says it's going to be, it's going to be beautiful and amazing.
J: Yes. (Laughs)
N: And it's actually one of the hardest things I've ever done and that includes… I think, it's harder than being in a combat zone; being a mom.
N: Yeah, and so sometimes, I think we do pretend like it's great.
N: I go on social media and see everyone like, “Ah!” you know, “How beautiful and great my kids are,” but…
J: Yeah, we're seeing their outsides and comparing them to our insides. But elaborate on that, how is being a mom harder than being in a combat zone? I mean, I like… I appreciate this comparison because I think we all still have this idea, “Oh, being a mom is easy. I mean, you're just staying at home and you take care of some things in the house. I mean, what's my problem? Why is this so hard?”
J: So I think, for you to elaborate on that and be able to compare those 2 things can make us maybe feel more like, “Hey, moms are badasses,” (Laughs) you know, what I'm saying?
N: Yeah, absolutely, they are. Well, I think that it's kind of like the military, like extreme sleep deprivation, right, you never know when your kid is going to be… you know, if you have a new baby of course, and even into the first few years and that's just exhausting in itself.
N: But just, you know, you've got to… like, for me, I'm… I have 2 little tiny ones and then 2 older teenagers.
N: I've got to get up and get them (the littler ones) dressed and fed. And, you know, it's hard for me sometimes to get myself dressed and fed.
N: Like… and I've got to do it for 2 other people who don't even want to get dressed and fed.
J: Yes. (Laughs)
N: Yes. (Laughs)
J: That's so funny.
N: And it can be really rough. It's… there's a lot of resistance and… you know, and you just want to be like, “Okay, fine I quit.” Like, every day I feel that way sometimes.
J: Yes, yes!
J: Well, that word ‘resistance’, I think we struggle as moms to put it into words, but you're like leading this battalion of troops that is really naughty! And they… they don't want to follow the leadership, and you're like trying to get them to line up in their rows, you know, (just using this analogy) and it's hard; it's like a mindset game all the time. And then you add on quote/unquote the ‘trauma’ of the screaming and that, you know… I kind of can imagine the noise from war is part of the trauma, but, you know, hey, we're getting that with our kids every day; especially the toddlers and the teenagers, right? (Laughs)
N: Yes, absolutely, or the tantrums or the, “I'm not going to do it.” And then you need to keep a time scheduled because you have to be places, you have appointments, you've got to get them to school on time or you're a bad mom or you're that mom who has your kids late all the time. And so, you know, you've got to manage time and all of this stuff in the world that, you know, they don't care about necessarily (the little ones), but…
J: How interesting; that's so interesting. I'm excited about this analogy because, I mean, I… I still am going to say that I'm imagining war’s way more traumatic; don't get… you know, don’t get me wrong. (Laughs)
N: It’s probably more traumatic. (Laughs)
J: But, I mean, this idea that, you know, both have that emotional piece. I think a lot of the trauma is not understanding all this emotional stress we’re under and realizing we actually have to do something about it. So you said you started your healing practice and you were using the healing from the body level up, and did it help just to feel it a little? I mean, you said you're managing it now, do you feel like taking the time to heal was helpful and how would that apply for a mom, for example?
N: Yeah, it completely made a difference. I think that I grew up not really knowing completely how to process my emotions and feel them, and so I… through the practice of, you know, therapy, I really got used to feeling my feelings and releasing them. And so it slowly has become a daily practice where I like to do a lot of tapping, that's really helped where you kind of tap on acupressure points on your body.
N: And it gets you present to what you're feeling. And then once you get present to those feelings, they just kind of dissipate. And so my kids could be having a tantrum and sometimes I'll just tap my 2 fingers together (my pointer finger and my thumb) and I just allow myself to feel the frustration. Because sometimes, I mean, I think what's normal is to even just say that, “Oh, it's okay, it's just part of life,” and we minimize the intensity of our feelings. And if your kid is throwing a tantrum, actually that's really… it's okay to be angry about that and frustrated and pissed off and…
N: … and actually feel that. But, you know, the trick is to feeling it, once you feel it, it will neutralize. So we definitely have to acknowledge that it's really hard and that there are so many emotions that we’re allowed to feel, and there's nothing wrong with thinking that it's hard. And, you know, just being focused on allowing yourself to be who you are and have those feelings will help them released.
J: Yeah, I love that. And when you mentioned just tapping your finger and thumb together, it's so funny, I tried it because I've never really done that before, but I've done tapping. But so funny, it… it just made me realize, “Oh yeah, I'm right here, I'm in this body. Oh yeah, I'm here in this present right now.” I don't know, it brought me out of something, it was so interesting. But then to recognize, “Okay, we're in this body, we're here,” and emotions are a part of it, and it's okay to process them, that's part of healing too.
J: I love that.
N: Yeah, absolutely.
J: Way to go. Well, let's have a quick break for our sponsor and come back and talk about Gratitude Morning and how that's helping you.
Okay, welcome back. So let's hear more about Gratitude Morning, Nichole.
N: Okay, I created a gratitude app, a simple gratitude app, just because, well, it was gratitude had helped me so much kind of reprogram my thinking to focus on what's working. You know, it definitely… I think it had a huge impact for the least amount of effort so it was just, I started off with 3 things that I was grateful for every day. And I was using a gratitude app and it wasn't that great and so I tried all of the gratitude apps.
N: None of them were what I needed. So I used the least awful version of all the gratitude apps out there and it was still really effective, like I still got my gratitude list out. I mean, however you want to do gratitude lists, even just write it down or write it on a receipt or wherever you can, but I like having it on my phone because it would go with me. And so I decided to… I mean, I probably spent 3 years using the app I didn't like before I finally said… I mean, I had the idea for years, I'm like, “Oh, if I was an app creator, I would… this is what I would do.” But I didn't really believe in myself enough to make an app, I didn't think it was possible, you know, “Who am I to create an app? I'm not an app developer.”
N: So I think with just all the work I had done, I eventually began to think maybe it was, you know, a combination of my gratitude practice also, like, “Maybe I could do this. Maybe I couldn't figure this out.”
J: Did you make the app? Well, let me just say, I love… you know, what I love about your app? It has that… I don't know, it's calming. It's got that pale pink color behind and then just this clean page where you write in a really pretty font your 3 things you’re grateful for, and then it tracks it and you can share it, but, you know, how did you figure it all out?
N: What did I do? Well, I designed the app in Photoshop which, you know…
J: Really? Wow!
N: No, no, no, this isn't the real one. (Laughs)
J: Oh, oh, okay, okay.
N: And I made the logo and about a year before I actually said, “Okay, I'm going to do it,” and it just kind of sat in a folder and was collecting dust. And, you know, I think it was just all the work I did it was just a mindset shift where I was like, “I'm going to figure this out.” I went on… I got a book and went to freelancer.com and just thought, “Okay, I'm just going to get a quote,” because this is a pretty basic app. My entire… I had the whole… all of the buttons, everything, I had it drawn out exactly how I wanted it. I knew, you know, what I wanted and that I wanted to be able to set a daily goal to whatever you wanted so that you could get a gold star when you hit your daily goal, and I wanted it in numbered list format. And… and so I got a quote and talked to my husband and he was on board and, you know, I sent the developer my old Photoshop files and my logo and the font I wanted and the exact colors I need it and he created it.
J: Wow, it's great, it's great. So, you know, how many gratitudes do people usually list when they're, you know, setting their goal; 3, 10, I don't know, you know, do you have data on that?
N: I know Tony Robbins does 3. I like 5.
N: But I think it's definitely personal. I think, you know, you start small and feel… you do what feels good or what feels best, you know, as a practice and just kind of tweak it. You know, and it doesn't have to be perfect.
N: Even just writing 1 is great for your mindset. Like, it's just the tiny little things that you can do to take care for yourself each day.
J: Yeah. Well, no, I like it, I don't know why I like it, it's so simple; and you guys need to check out the app. So on my first entry, I have to laugh, I'll share it because I believe in vulnerability, but I don't know why I was grateful for these things, but I wrote, “Sex, God, and stars.” (Laughs)
N: Yes. (Laughs)
J: So funny! So funny, but I am grateful for all of those things.
J: And they're there and then I can just keep scrolling through and seeing all the days of what I wrote; I think it's brilliant so thank you. And there's something easier about scrolling through than, you know, flipping through pages so it's awesome.
J: Cool. Is it on Android and iTunes?
N: Uh-huh, it's on both systems, yeah.
J: And it's called… they search for Gratitude Morning, yeah?
N: Gratitude Morning, mm-hmm.
J: Cool, yeah, check it out. I want to know what everyone writes for their first 3 because mine… I mean, a little embarrassing, but whatever. (Laughs)
N: No, those are prefect. There’s no getting it wrong; you can write anything. And I do it with my daughter too, it's been really fun. I let her write a list and so it's become a practice for her. And she just turned 4, but she loves it.
J: Aww, that's so fun, that's so fun. Well, let's talk about a few of your favorite things. So we talked about your low point, what has been the high point of your life?
N: You know, I think I'm here right now, just that place where I… you know, I have a great partner, a great relationship, and we're kind of navigating kind of just a difficult situation, but we're doing it with a lot of grace and forgiveness. So I'm happy, even with all the chaos, even with all the kids and the noise and the arguments and even the 13 year old and the 4 year old fight. (Laughs)
N: But I'm… I think I'm just in a place where I'm starting to really believe in myself and do things in the world that impact other people, and that feels really, really good; it's very fulfilling.
J: Yeah, and I heard you say that… it seems to me like you're suggesting you know you can handle anything kind of because you know how to pull yourself out of anything through your gratitude practice and your self-care and feeling what you feel, and is that accurate?
N: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I am in a new place where I feel like, you know, like I can come out of anything okay, you know?
N: Even a toddler tantrum.
J: Oh, wait till you have teens, let's talk again after that.
N: Well, I’ve got 2 teens.
J: Oh, you do?
N: Yeah, they're my step-kids.
J: Okay, okay.
N: So yeah, yeah…
J: Well, then that's probably even worse.
N: I think the toddler’s worse.
J: Okay, okay.
N: But I don't know, maybe just depends on the kids probably.
J: Right, right.
J: Oh, so funny. Well, what does your morning routine look like? You mentioned, you know, self-care, so what kinds of things do you like to fit in when you first wake up?
N: Actually, it's not this beautiful painted picture that I'd like it to be.
N: I've had wonderful morning routines before, but lately, it's more like, you know, I get the kids up, get them breakfast and I have breakfast, get them dressed and… which is a big feat, I think.
J: Yeah, that's an hour of work right there.
N: And I get dressed and then I turn on the TV for them and, you know, whether it's Mickey Mouse, Little Einstein, something like that. And, you know, I kind of just.. I get my phone and I write my gratitude list. And, you know, sometimes that's just the first self-care that I do in the morning at all, it's just my gratitude list, and it takes a few minutes and I get my small self-care when… you know, while the kids are there, and that's the extent of it. And then, you know, I like to go and do some hot yoga if I can, like a 9:30 yoga class…
J: Mm, nice.
N: … and I drop the kids off for a little bit and go and do that. And that's the simplicity of my self-care in the morning (Laughs); it's just a gratitude list.
J: Well, and that works, you know, I think it's perfect and you're doing what you need to do and lower stress, not freaking out that you're not achieving everything you want to. I think that's why a lot of people get shocked when they're first become stay-at-home moms because, you know, just like you described, your whole agenda was essentially getting the kids to function with some food and some clothes and (Laughs) it takes time; it's so funny. Well, what is your favorite easy meal?
N: I am all about keeping the standards low. (Laughs)
J: Yes, me too. (Laughs)
N: So I really like… I get frozen spaghetti squash from Trader Joe's and I just… or actually, they’re zoodles; they’re zoodles, frozen zoodles.
N: And I put them on the stove for, you know, 9 minutes or so, don't put anything in there, just a lid. And cook them on medium, toss in some… a can of spaghetti sauce and I microwaved turkey meatballs, and voila, you have a turkey meatballs zoodle healthy meal. (Laughs)
J: Very good! It's perfect. (Laughs)
J: So what is your favorite life hack? I love this question, just so I can say ‘hack’. (Laughs)
N: Yeah. You know, I like… I have a lot of them, but one of my favorites is something called Mind Movie, have you heard of it?
J: I haven't heard of it in that phrase, but I think I know what you mean, but go ahead.
N: Yeah, well, there's a site called mindmovie.com.
J: Oh, okay.
N: And you can create your own set of affirmations…
N: … with different images so that, you know, you can custom design a little video for yourself to program your mind. And so I get images that really resonate and then I add my own affirmations, and then you can choose your music. And then for about… I have about 3 minutes and 30 seconds worth of… of this movie I watch, and I try to watch it every day (it doesn't always happen), but it just helps me get in a positive mindset and really, you know, have the… the impact of the affirmations with the images and some good music.
J: Ah! You know, they say our subconscious does everything in images, so if you want it to go to the subconscious level, that makes brilliant sense. I can't wait to check that out, wow.
N: Yeah, it's really, really efficient. (Laughs)
J: Yes! It's like a little mini self-hypnosis session it sounds like, cool.
N: It is.
J: What's your favorite book?
N: I would say, I mean, probably I'm going to go with Marianne Williamson’s ‘A Return to Love’.
J: That's a good one.
J: Well, I will remind our listeners we're going to have links to all of this, to Nichole's app and to the mind movie and this book from Marianne Williamson on the show notes page at jenriday.com/136. So Nichole, what does it mean for you to be a vibrant happy woman?
N: It means embracing the imperfect, loving yourself the way you are, even if it's ugly and imperfect and sad or everything, and allowing yourself to feel your feelings.
J: Oh, I love that. I thought I had my favorite… you know, this might be my new fav… I have always a new favorite, but this might be my new favorite trio of things to do. Embrace the imperfect and love yourself just as you are and allow yourself to feel your feelings (oh, that one's so huge) and taking time. I want to speak just really quick to that. So I had a rough, you know, past several months with my 2 oldest and they're all doing great now, and then it's so funny, it's almost like my own little version of post-traumatic stress disorder because I felt tired and emotions are really close to the surface. And so every time one of the feelings come up, I just stop, I jump into bed for 5 or 10 minutes (because my office is at home), and I just feel them and it's helping so much, rather than having a total collapse. I think doing that helps me to keep functioning and feeling pretty good, so I think that's so important; feeling your feelings.
N: Absolutely, mm-hmm.
J: Let's have a challenge from you to our listeners and then remind us where we can find you and we’ll say goodbye.
N: My challenge is or your listeners to create a simple gratitude list with just 3 items a day for 7 days; try it out. I know I had a lot of resistance to creating a gratitude list, and it's actually science-based to reprogram your brain for happiness, which I just learned about when I was creating the app, which made the complete sense to me. So 3 things you're grateful for every day, have your kids join in if you want to add to those or create their own just for 7 days to try it on. And I really think, if you try it for just 7 days, you'll get hooked.
J: Cool, thanks.
J: I'm taking the challenge. I have your app, Gratitude Morning, and I have a few days already under my belt so I'm going to do this.
J: Well… and you're on Twitter and Instagram, how can they find you there?
N: Uh-huh, sure. You can find me at just, my handle is Nichole.Crawford, and it's Nichole with an ‘h’, or on gratitudemorning.com.
J: Oh, nice, perfect. Well, I love it, I'm glad you're doing so well, good luck with those 2 little ones and they'll grow up fast.
N: Thank you.
J: Thank you so much for being on the show.
N: Thank you so much.
J: I want to thank you for listening and I also want to challenge you to start your own daily gratitude practice; it will help so much. I'm going to be back later this week with a happy bit all about gratitude and how it helps us in our lives. I'm going to talk about all the latest research, and wow, there's some amazing stuff going on. But hint, I'm going to tell you, gratitude essentially needs to be treated like our daily multivitamin; it is that important. So I will see you later this week for that, and until then, make it a great week. Take care.
Outro: Thanks for listening to the Vibrant Happy Women Podcast at www.jenriday.com.