Jen: [00:00:00] This is the Vibrant Happy Women podcast. And today we're talking about a functional medicine approach to taking charge of your health. Stay tuned.
Intro: [00:00:10] Are you ready to expand your soul's capacity for joy? Then this podcast is for you. I'm Dr. Jen Riday and welcome to Vibrant Happy Women.
Jen: [00:00:22] Hey my friends, it's Jen. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm super excited to be saying to you today that it's sunny here where I live in Madison, Wisconsin, and boy, did we need it! I have been so productive for the past many days of sun. Prior to that, it felt like it was gray for months. I'm super happy. I hope it's as sunny and cheerful where you live. Well, today I'm talking with guest Meg Mill all about taking charge of your health through a functional medicine approach. A lot of times when we go to mainstream practitioners and doctors, we may not be able to order all the labs and tests that we want. We want to know what's happening with our hormones. We want to know what's happening with our vitamin D. That's been my experience. Well, a unique and alternative approach to your health is to work with a functional medicine practitioner, and Meg is one of those. So in this episode, you'll hear ideas of how that might work for you. Just be open. You know, the medical industry, the insurance industry are changing. You'll hear a story in this episode of a friend of mine who had the exact same procedure and situation in the US and in Mexico and how much she paid for that. It's very, very interesting. In my hometown, there is a physician, an MD, who opened a practice where you pay monthly for her services at a reasonable rate, and then you carry high deductible insurance just for extreme emergencies. And it bypasses the insurance altogether, except in those extreme cases. There are new and interesting things popping up and it's good to be open to them so you can keep more of your dollars in your pocket and be more in charge of how you want your health care to look. So that's what we're talking about today. If you have headaches or brain fog or you want to lose weight or you have digestive issues, you'll hear all of those mentioned in this episode. So let's go ahead and jump in.
Jen: [00:02:26] Hey everyone. I am here with Dr. Meg Mill and she is a functional medicine practitioner who is also a bestselling author and has a great podcast, and she has a virtual functional medicine practice working with patients worldwide to heal the root cause of their health struggles. Meg is particularly passionate about helping people with headaches and migraines and helping them increase energy and restore mental clarity. Raising my hand. Why is it that we need that so much in Mid-age anyway? She does that without drugs and using her simple and proven E.A.T. Method. The E.A.T. Method. I'm super excited to hear about that. Welcome to the show, Meg.
Meg: [00:03:07] Hi. Thank you for having me.
Jen: [00:03:09] So the E.A.T. Method, while it's fresh in our minds, what is the E.A.T. Method?
Meg: [00:03:15] So in this method – I have a program called Headstrong Happiness Beyond Headache – so I have my virtual functional medicine practice where I see people one on one, but also – and we'll get into why and everything – I became passionate about helping people with headaches and migraines. I created this program and in it we work on the Jen: E.A.T. Method, so the first part is enlightened. So when you are someone who suffers from regular headaches and migraines, we really need to work on enlightening ourselves, on all the triggers. There are so many and we'll get into them in there. They can be complicated, but sometimes they're things we don't even associate with having a headache. So we really work on enlightening ourselves, on our triggers, on different foods, on our environment, all those things. And then we really need to align ourselves. So we need to align our hormones. We need to make sure our circadian rhythm is aligned. The next section is align and we work on aligning our body back into balance so we can stop the headaches. And then we work on thriving and really building all the right, the right nutrients and really healing any underlying inflammation and all of those things so we can move on and we can thrive. So we enlighten, we align and then we thrive.
Jen: [00:04:22] Oooo, enlighten, align and thrive. Wow. That could apply to so many things. So headaches; I'm not typically one who has headaches, but I've had moments where I have them and it seems like I make an adjustment to my diet or my schedule and it goes away. So how would you say side by side? How do the medical approach to headaches and migraines, how does that differ from the naturopathic approach to headaches and migraines? Because I think there's a difference, right?
Meg: [00:04:53] They're very different. So really almost, we almost flip-flop the approach. So, you know, when you're thinking about it in the conventional space, you're going to go in and you're going to say like, “Okay, I'm having regular headaches or I have migraines.” And there the approach most likely is with medication. And it's really more of a pain management approach. So we're really saying like, “Okay, you have the headaches, we're going to give you pain medication to manage that pain, but we're not, what we're not really doing well in the conventional space is identifying and really working through why you're getting them in the first place.” So you're getting the headache and that's a signal of pain. So why are you getting that pain? Why is your body, you know, really telling you something's going on? So in the functional approach, we actually flip it around and we're looking at putting all of the pieces together so we're not bucketing into neurology and, you know, gynecology. That would be where they're kind of, you know, we think they're doing our hormones. We can get into all of that. And then, you know, gastroenterology and all these buckets where it's like, you know, looking at that specifically. But we're taking all of those things and we're putting them together. And those all can have an impact on your headaches. You can have an underlying gut infection that is making you release more histamine that's actually triggering headaches. And, you know, there are different things that are happening in our body that are all connected. So what we do is we really become our own health detectives and we put all those pieces together and really figure out what's going on in your unique body that's making you present with headaches.
Jen: [00:06:24] Mhm. I love that. So the hormones, the gut microbiome, the diet, all the pieces.
Meg: [00:06:30] Yes. Yeah. We put them all together. So.
Jen: [00:06:33] So let's say I wanted to work with you, a functional medicine practitioner. I've always wanted to but my, you know, the person who recommended someone there all the way across town, you happen to be virtual, which is a really cool thing. What would you do with someone who presented with the classic middle-age issue of brain fog? Like, is that something we can solve? Or, you know, what would you do with that?
Meg: [00:06:59] Yeah. So, you know, really, again, it's about why you're having the brain fog. So what I would want to do, so before we meet for the first time, I have you fill out a really detailed intake questionnaire and a symptom questionnaire, and then I review all of that before we even talk in our first appointment and really start to then we start to put the pieces together. So it's really like what is causing your brain fog, which can be so many different things, you know? Do you have, Are you deficient in certain nutrients? Is there a reason that you're getting the brain fog? Do you have low thyroid function? We look at, you know, that's a whole nother topic that we could get into really when we're testing most of the time for thyroid function, we're just getting standard tests that really aren't getting the whole picture of our thyroid function. And even in the conventional labs that I'm (using quotations here) are considered normal, they're really not optimal for thyroid function. So we have a lot of people that are having this subclinical hypothyroid undiagnosed that that is contributing to a lot of things like that. So we need to make sure that your thyroid is functioning well. We need to make sure that your hormones are in balance. We need to make sure that you're getting the right nutrients, that you're getting enough sleep, that you're eating the right things in your diet, not causing inflammation. So it's really putting looking at, you know, okay, this is you know, we really flip it around. This is your symptom. This is what you're feeling. You're feeling the brain fog, you're feeling these feelings. And then why are you feeling it and what can we do really looking at you as a whole person to put the pieces back into place so that you don't have the, so you know, that you don't have the brain fog, even neurotransmitter balance all of these things, Mitochondrial health. I could go on but it really just getting those pieces together.
Jen: [00:08:41] Yeah Wow! That's cool. How do you do the lab element of that testing the thyroid, for example?
Meg: [00:08:48] So yeah, well thyroid is generally blood tests. So, you know, when I'm working with people virtually, I have contracts with different labs so they can just go to like their local lab. So some of the functional medicine tests, you know, if we do a stool test, the hormone test I use is a urine test with headaches. We do food sensitivity tests. Those are all actually home tests that you can actually have drop shipped right to your home. And then you send it back, which is really nice. Fedex picks it up or UPS or whoever they're contracted with. So a lot of the more in-depth tests people can actually do in their homes. And then if they need lab work, you know, they can just go to a local lab. So, wow. Yeah, it's really convenient there. You know, the world changed in 2020 and not all of it was good. But this aspect of being able to really do things anywhere virtually, it has really opened up so many options. Yeah.
Jen: [00:09:42] I often see ads for various tests. I think people want information and sadly, through the way insurance works in the standard medical industry, there are a lot of hoops to get all the tests that you want to do. So my example is vitamin D, where I go to for my mainstream medical care. They now recommend not measuring vitamin D. Why? How do you handle that and what would you say to that?
Meg: [00:10:09] I feel so frustrated by that. And I have, you know, heard that unfortunately heard that story years ago, have been in my, you know, have been in that place where you're like, “Okay, I just want to see this. This is my body. I should be able to have a vitamin D level.” We know that vitamin D should really be around, you know, up around at least 50, 60. And it's often not, especially people who live in cold climates aren't getting the sunshine we need for vitamin D, So, you know, why won't, why won't they just run that? And, you know, a lot of it's an insurance game, so they have to jump through hoops in order to get it billed, you know, paid for by the insurance. And so it's like there are justifications of all the things they need to do in order just to get you a simple lab, you know, that shows a nutrient level in your body that's helpful for your overall health. There are so many benefits of vitamin D. So and another… Just a side note is vitamin D is also a fat-soluble vitamin. So not only should we have enough vitamin D that you should be able to have that checked, but we also don't want to have too much. So if you're taking vitamin D, we also want to be able to monitor that level to make sure that you're not, you know, it's not getting too high. So there's a lot of value. So I guess, you know, we have to all be advocates for ourselves. Um, we have so much more knowledge. We're listening to podcasts like this, we're seeing things, you know, we're able to get information online. So really going in and just advocating for yourself or just taking it into your own hands. And, you know, there's so many things now that you can find people who will, you know, do what you need to have done.
Jen: [00:11:44] That's great. That's great. So I'm sure someone listening is like, “Oh, I've got to work with Meg, I want to test my vitamin D.” Where would they go to connect with you to learn more about that?
Meg: [00:11:53] Yeah, so my website is just megmill.com, and I do free consultations. So that's an opportunity really to just talk about what you have going on. It's nice to get to know people and say like, “Okay, what do you have going on and how I can help you?” So it's actually, you know, there's always an option even to talk. I talk with people directly when they need it, even before we work together.
Jen: [00:12:17] So cool. Now, I'm sure some people the biggest medical issue that people talk about, especially women, is weight loss. Do you help people with that and what's your approach to that?
Meg: [00:12:28] Yeah. So, you know, weight loss is complicated because it's something that I guess, I mean, I work with people on diet and nutrition all the time. And so, where you can see is some people can make a change to their diet and they can just snap, you know, “Okay, I lost 15, 20 pounds!” And it just comes off and it's amazing. There can be other people who are, you know, doing everything right, eating healthy, you know, getting all the nutrients, getting the balance of protein and carbs and, you know, the right ratios and it just won't come off. So that's where we need to look again. Why? So if, you know, there is an aspect of calories in, calories out. So you want to make sure that, you know, everybody's unique but you know that you're not getting too – I'm not going to throw exact numbers out just because everybody's diet is unique – but you know that you're getting an appropriate amount of calories, that you're getting movement to burn energy, you know, build muscle. Muscle burns fat so that you're doing all of those things. But then when you are doing those things and you're still not able to drop the weight, then we need to look at why you're not.
Meg: [00:13:34] So we talked about that very common subclinical hypothyroid, you know, your thyroid is responsible for cellular metabolism. And so when you aren't metabolizing, you know, very well at a cellular level, you're not going to burn as much. So we can see that. We can also see various hormonal imbalances that can contribute. We can see insulin resistance. So another thing that's not often checked is insulin. So when you're doing standard lab work, they're going to check your blood glucose. And while that can be a valuable number, sometimes before blood glucose actually starts to rise, we actually see this level of insulin go up first because when you have high levels of blood sugar, you're getting. So when you're eating a lot of carbohydrates and you're getting this overload of blood glucose, so your carbohydrates are going to turn into sugar, it's going to be blood glucose. And in order to have the blood glucose get into our cells to use energy, we need insulin. So insulin is like the lock and key. It's like the, you know, gets that into the cell. Well, when you have high blood glucose levels, the insulin is going up and up and up because it's trying to like shunt that glucose into the cell shunt that, you know, so you're so that can go up first.
Meg: [00:14:49] And so sometimes people are starting to become, you can see that insulin creeping up before you actually see that change in blood glucose. Even once we start to see that in our environment, it's often a watch and wait, like, well, “Your glucose is getting high, but you're not diabetic yet. So, you know, just keep going, okay?” Your glucose is getting high. So and then we just inch up, up, up. So really getting control of that in an early stage and balancing your blood sugar can be another thing. Another thing that you're going to be surprised that I'm going to say is eating enough. So I will work with women who are also starving themselves. And so we also look at cortisol, which is another hormone. So when you starve yourself, your body can actually think that you're going into starvation mode and conserve. So there is an element sometimes, you know, whenever we're saying, okay, you actually need to increase your calories, that can be surprising.
Jen: [00:15:44] Oh, that's nice. I vote for that for my diagnosis being eating more.
Meg: [00:15:47] Yes.
Jen: [00:15:49] Yes. I eat plenty. Yeah.
Meg: [00:15:54] Well, yeah, yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. You go ahead. Yeah. No, I say, but you know, when people are really focused on that and watching, they can get down to those real calorie deficits.
Jen: [00:16:04] Yeah, that makes sense. So how did you get, you know, start doing this? It's unique. It's awesome. You know, virtual functional medicine. What was your journey to this place? How did you know you wanted to do this?
Meg: [00:16:18] Yeah. So I was a PharmD and I graduated as a pharmacy and then I did a residency and ambulatory care clinical pharmacy. And so I worked in, in medication management, a lot of ambulatory care settings, working with a lot of cardiovascular patients in different capacities. And I, I was seeing people really start to I really felt like people were just surviving. You know, we were giving more medications. They knew the protocols. I knew why. But we're just, “Okay, here's another medication.” We're not really getting better. We're not really reversing. We're just adding medication. So I always had a more preventative approach that I thought, you know, there's so many, there's this gap, there's so many things you can do without the medication. Sometimes medication, you know, is important and has a purpose, but it's not always the first or only answer. I think that's kind of where we're relying on that as our tool all the time of like, what? Medicine? What medicine? You know, and then you can go in deeper. The drug companies are often doing a lot of the education that they want you to be on the medicine and all of those things because that feeds their pocket. So, you know, it's just the same kind of approach. So I had that, you know, going on in my life. And then I also was having my own health struggles. I was having a lot of gastrointestinal issues, so I was having GI issues that I was going to get, like all these different gastroenterologists and getting no answers. It was like, “Okay, you're fine.” And I'm like, “No, I don't feel fine.” You know, the tests were done and everything and they're saying, they'll say IBS.
Meg: [00:17:46] So that's basically, sometimes I don't know what it is, you just get the label, you know. So yeah, so that's all like we're not sure. So I started looking into functional, you know, reading. I started diving in for my own health and I found functional medicine. I was like, “Okay, this is, I like this approach!” And I just started doing research and research. And then I started to see improvements in my own health. And then so I went back and got educated, got certified in functional medicine. And then I actually, after the certification and all of the education, I opened my own practice. And it's just really amazing that, you know, just being able to see people that, you know, if you're listening and you feel like you, you don't feel well, you're exhausted, you have the brain fog, you have bloating or something, and you just feel like you have to live with this. I just remember being on vacation at a point and it's like, “Oh, I'm supposed to be enjoying this. It's a wonderful moment.” But my stomach was so upset and I was just not able to really be fully present because I didn't feel well. I have people come to me every day that are like, “Oh, wow, I didn't know I could feel this great!” And it takes work, it takes discipline in some ways. It's not a forever thing, but there might be some things that you have to change along the way, but you want to because you feel amazing.
Jen: [00:19:02] Yeah, what a great phrase to hear. “I didn't know I could feel this amazing.” Yes.
Meg: [00:19:08] I know. Yes. We don't have to sludge through. We can actually feel like, you can have the energy that you need, the clarity, you can feel your best. And it is possible. And sometimes it's like, it's not really talked about. I think the other thing I would say is there can be information overwhelm right now. There's so much information that's bombarding you all the time. So it's like, “Try this, try this, try this.” And I think people want to do it, but they don't know the right way and it's not the same for everyone. So what you might need to do nutritionally or for habits might be different than what I might need to do, which might be different from the next person. And so sometimes getting that roadmap of what will work for you is also helpful because it, we're in this. Everybody has the way. Everybody has like, “Oh, this is the way to do it. This is the way to do it, this is the way to do it.” And so you don't know which way.
Jen: [00:20:03] So true. So true. I mean that, especially when, still today the medical industry is based on the male version of health. A lot of the research includes males and they often aren't differentiating for gender or biological sex, I should say. So I don't know if you want to speak to that a little bit. You're surely more of an expert than me on that.
Meg: [00:20:29] Well, what we see those in things like, you know, the ketogenic diet, most of the research. So keto is another way that works for some people. Most of the research on keto has been done on males and it's not always a great thing for menstruating women. So it does seem like there's more from the data, there's more success generally with males and menopausal women than menstruating women. And then, you know, another thing is intermittent fasting. So women can, there is, when we were talking about weight loss, even blood sugar balance, there are benefits of intermittent fasting definitely in some populations. But women have to be more careful, especially menstruating, and doing it in the right time of their cycles in the right way with their cycles. So we're not putting more stress on our bodies because some of these things can actually create more stress and then we can have more cortisol increase. And then, you know, some of these things that we talked about. So it is the data historically have been from men. I think, hopefully, we're getting more and more studies on women, but it is, really tailor it to your unique needs is important.
Jen: [00:21:36] Right? Right. You mentioned cortisol, the stress hormone. How does that impact our ability to feel good and lose weight? I know they're very connected. And I've come to see as my stress increases, my nibbling increases. Yeah.
Meg: [00:21:52] Well, and the cortisol can create cravings, too. So then sometimes that. Yeah, sometimes you're getting cravings from cortisol, dysregulation from sugar or salt and different things. So, you know, we so, so when you have a stress response, when you feel like you're so…Well, I'm going to take a step back here. So we have, we have two different nervous systems. You have your parasympathetic nervous system and then you have your sympathetic nervous system. So we're intended to live in our parasympathetic nervous system. That's where we rest and digest. That's where we're calm. We relax. And were intended to go into our sympathetic nervous system. That's our fight and flight. So if you were chased by a lion, if you have to get away, you know you're running for your life, your blood's going to your limbs. You're not digesting well, you're storing your, you know, you're in that fight or flight. And so what has happened over time is we're all we're a lot of us are now living a lot of the time in the sympathetic nervous system. So we're not really coming back to that rest and digest. We're staying up here in the sympathetic nervous system. And then when we are in that, we have the immediate response, you know, of our catecholamines. And then we, and then cortisol goes up and that's our increase.
Meg: [00:23:03] So then you're in that fight or flight. So think of that when your body is feeling almost wired and tired at the same time. So you're, you're feeling like, “Okay, I'm exhausted, but I'm jittery.” And you feel that, you know, increase in cortisol. So after some time that cortisol remains high, you start to get, your adrenals start to wear out. So we get, we kind of label as adrenal fatigue and then our cortisol drops low. And then you want to think of that as when you're just exhausted. So when you're really not getting that curve that we should get where you get the increased cortisol in the day and you're just sort of feeling wiped out and tired all the time. So we want to do things like, you know, bringing our body back into that parasympathetic nervous system so we can use breathwork. You can just sit and shut your eyes for two minutes and take some deep breaths. Um, just really you can feel that that parasympathetic response happen after a while. The thing is, you just need to practice it. It's not necessarily when you're stressed out, easy to do, to just sit and calm your body down and relax. But if you kind of get that practice in, you can start to do it.
Meg: [00:24:11] And I start to tell people, Just take two minutes a day, sit, shut your eyes, do some deep breathing, really feel your body like feel your belly, fill up with air, and then breathe it out and kind of think of it like a circular flow. Because you can take we can take two minutes. Some people are like, I'm so busy, I don't have time, you know, and you might not have time to meditate for 20 minutes or you might not have time to do maybe things you think are a little bit dramatic, but you can take two minutes, you know, a few times a day and just sit and start to teach your body to come back in that calm space because then you're going to like, you know, the weight like we were talking about. You're going to have better digestion, you're going to have better sleep, you're going to have all these things start to happen and our cortisol is higher. So we have an HPG axis that is a hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenal, thyroid, gonads. And so cortisol, the adrenals are higher on the chain. People are talking a lot about estrogen and progesterone and hormones, which is great, but adrenals actually higher. So your adrenals can affect all your other hormones.
Jen: [00:25:10] Oh yeah. Wow. Yeah. And you can test for hormone levels as well? We can test…
Meg: [00:25:18] Yes. Yeah. And we can actually test the whole curve so often if you just would go get a blood draw, you would just get like a one-time. But we actually want to see a pattern. So when we test, we do a different pattern to see where it is throughout the day.
Jen: [00:25:31] That's cool.
Meg: [00:25:32] That's awesome. Yes.
Jen: [00:25:34] Does… I've always had this theory that women's testosterone… Well, what does it do typically with age?
Meg: [00:25:41] Testosterone will typically go down with age. So, you know, we start to see potentially, you want the testosterone for increased muscle mass, you know…
Jen: [00:25:54] And men, it goes down? Yes. Okay. Okay.
Meg: [00:25:57] Yeah. So that, you know, we aren't thinking about testosterone always as women, but it is also important for women to have testosterone, too. So that can be a factor if you're, if you feel like, you know, you're having just, sometimes like, like feeling not motivated, low libido, those can be things that are associated with low testosterone, too. So when we do a test, when I would do a test, the test I used most often is called the Dutch test. And it's a urine test. And so you do five you do like 4 or 5 samples over two days. And we actually look at,, we don't we look at the cortisol, we look at DHEA, testosterone, we look at estrogen progesterone, we look at all the metabolites and see the balance because hormones are really all about balance. You want to make sure that your hormones are balanced with each other. So some that's when we start to see some of these symptoms, when, you know, we have one high or one low and they're not in balance with all the other hormones.
Jen: [00:26:56] Yeah. What are your thoughts on hormone supplements or bioidentical hormones? Do you ever recommend them?
Meg: [00:27:05] I think that if they're done right, they have a place for women. You know, I mean, we're, we have, there were some studies back in the early 2000s that were kind of showing that made everyone scared of bioidentical hormone replacement. But a lot of that has been repealed. There's been, you know, really more research done that if it's done right, you just have to make sure that you're getting that you're not getting progestins, that you're getting progesterone, that you're getting estradiol, that you're getting, it's not all equal. So if you're going to have, you know, work with someone on that, you want to make sure that you're getting the right, the right prescriptions because you just want to make sure that you're getting things that are more naturally occurring in the body versus synthetics.
Jen: [00:27:50] Yeah. Yeah. And a friend told me and you know, I'm open to the idea, she said, “Progesterone is the best. It makes your skin better. It makes you feel more energized.” Is that true? Have you seen that in your clients?
Meg: [00:28:06] If you need it, if you need it.
Jen: [00:28:08] A good answer. We can't just all go do it, huh?
Meg: [00:28:12] No. Exactly. And that's why we test. Because if you take too much, you know, then. Because if you're low, if you're low, so often what happens in perimenopause is that progesterone drops first. So you're going to, you may get a drop in progesterone up to a decade before you start having a drop in estrogen. So we in perimenopause often live in this estrogen-dominant state. And that's where a lot of these symptoms come in through perimenopause. Okay. So we need to supplement with progesterone to balance. Like I said, it's all about balance. So we need to make sure that we're having that balance with our estrogen and progesterone. So that can be, if you're, if you have this progesterone deficit and you're still, your body is still making estrogen, but not making progesterone as well, it can just be like, “Oh, that's the relief. Now I finally sleep again. I you know, I feel so much better.” Progesterone also can be calming because there is a component with, GABA is a calming neurotransmitter. And you know that progesterone, taking progesterone can help you with GABA and that's, yeah, kind of has the calming effect. So, so yes, that is really a good thing. And women can feel amazing on progesterone. The only thing that I would say again is if you don't know your levels, you might, if you're taking too much progesterone and you don't need it, then there are, you know, you can also have other effects there too. Yeah.
Jen: [00:29:35] Yeah. Wow, That's awesome. Yes. Well, I'm excited about functional medicine. And thank you so much for being on my show because, you know, the healthcare industry feels scary. I just had a friend who had a seizure. She's probably listening. Um, she had one in the US and she had one in Mexico. Her bill in the US was many, many thousands of dollars and her bill in Mexico was less than 1000. Same exact treatment, you know, wild. And that just shows how bloated health care has become in the U.S. So plus to think that there are, we can actually have the testing we need, which seems to be avoided, like you said, because of insurance rules. And so I love what you're doing.
Meg: [00:30:26] Yeah. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah.
Jen: [00:30:29] You're a bestselling author. Tell us the name of your book.
Meg: [00:30:33] Yeah. So actually, the book is A Conscious Way Forward. So it actually is a collaborative book that I wrote with women other. And it's it's an amazing story. So we wrote it during the pandemic and it is all about coming out now. Mine is focused on health but actually some other of the women that are professionals wrote about different health crises or just personal development or different things. So it's about women's stories of how to move forward when everything changes. So everything in the world changed and how do you take that change and actually move forward in a new direction?
Jen: [00:31:07] Cool. That's cool. We'll put a link to that in our show notes along with your website. Well, this was amazing. Thank you so much for being on the show, Meg.
Meg: [00:31:16] Thank you so much for having me.
Jen: [00:31:19] Thank you so much for listening today. And I want to let you all know that the Vibrant Happy Women retreat for 2024 is live and available. You can check that out at jenriday.com/retreat. I'm super excited. I have loved every year that I've hosted this retreat. I think we've had five now and this will be the sixth one. I would love to see you there and to meet you and get to know you. So again, that's jenriday.com/retreat if you are interested in joining me there. All right. I will be back again next time. Until then, make it a vibrant, happy and healthy week. Take care.
Outro: [00:32:00] If you enjoy this podcast, you'd love Vibrant Soul, the place to heal, transform and expand your soul with like-minded friends. Join us at jenriday.com/vibrantsoul.