Transcript 359: How to Be a Freaking Dime Even When Life Gets Messy (with Jill Payne)

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00:00:00 – Jen Riday
You're listening to the Vibrant Happy Women Podcast. I'm Dr. Jen Riday, and today I'm talking with the amazing Jill Payne for the third time on this show about managing our energy so we can be our highest vibe – diming. You're going to love this one. Stay tuned. 

Are you ready to expand your soul's capacity for joy? Then this podcast is for you. I'm Dr. Jen Riday, and welcome to Vibrant Happy Women! 

00:00:39 – Jen Riday
Hey, my friends. Jill Payne is back in the house today on the show for the third time. I will link to her other episodes in our show notes. Well, I love Jill, and she has written a book called Be a Dime. Now, in case you don't remember or haven't listened to those episodes, being a dime is essentially being level ten energy on a scale from zero to ten or one to ten being level of ten energy, where that means you show up as your highest vibe, most positive self. Jill will review that stuff in our episode, but it involves your body, and your focus and your dialogue. BFD, or Jill's acronym, be a freaking dime, well, Jill has had some life changes since the last time she was on the show. She has a daughter now. She had an emotional situation with someone who she was going to be raising her child with who left, and she had every opportunity not to be a dime. Also, she's now a mother. Can you be a freaking dime? Level ten energy as a mom when you wake up with less sleep? Jill talks about the ins and outs of doing this work that she has always taught as a mom and as a single mom. I was fascinated, intrigued. I loved it. We really can feel amazing and have the higher energy we crave, and this episode will teach you how. So let's go ahead and dive in. Hey, everyone. I am here with Jill Payne, the Be A Freaking Dime lady who has been on the show twice before. I know that all of you love her, and we get to have her here again today. So Jill recently wrote a book and released it, published it. It's called Be a Dime: Unleash your Inherent Energy and Live Life More Joyfully. So good. We're going to talk about that. We're going to catch up to hear what's happening in Jill's life, and we're going to learn how to apply all this energy management stuff that Jill teaches to parenting and to family life and to all the things we as women specifically face. So welcome to Vibrant Happy Women – I should say, Welcome back, Jill. Glad to have you.

00:02:45 – Jill Payne
I'm so happy to be here, Jen Riday. I love this community. And I was just saying, I feel like I've been on this podcast in different stages of my life. So I think the first time I was in Nova Scotia, the second time I was in New York, and now I'm sitting in a snow day in Victoria, BC. So lots of different iterations, but.

00:03:09 – Jen Riday
There are so many cool people in British Columbia. I have this running joke that I've had about a million guests on the show from Nanaimo, which is close to where you live. Everyone cool is in British Columbia. That's what I've discovered.

00:03:23 – Jill Payne
Well, you connected me with those Vibrant Happy Women when I first moved here, and I am still close with a few of those ladies in. Have to come. Yeah. Gina. What's up? Gina, you're going to have to come and visit.

00:03:38 – Jen Riday
Really? You're hanging out with Gina? Oh, my gosh, she's so cool.

00:03:42 – Jill Payne

00:03:43 – Jen Riday
So fun. Well, catch us up. What took you to British Columbia, to Victoria?

00:03:50 – Jill Payne

00:03:50 – Jen Riday
And, I mean, that's clear across Canada, by the way.

00:03:54 – Jill Payne
Yeah. You want the real story?

00:03:56 – Jen Riday
Let's hear your story.

00:03:58 – Jill Payne
I don't know if there is a train, but we'll get you here. Don't worry. We'll get you here. So, I mean, short story, I was living in New York City. Well, if you read the book, I think people find this the most fascinating. The introduction. Jen, you've read the…

00:04:12 – Jen Riday
Yep. I read all of it.

00:04:15 – Jill Payne
All of it. I love it. So I was living in New York City. I was dating a woman. I had been dating men my whole life. I was dating a woman. We decided to have a kid together as soon as – we thought it would take me a long time to get pregnant, but you know, two weeks later, pregnant. And she just said she couldn't be involved. So I was in New York City thinking, am I going to raise a kid by myself in New York City? I don't even know how that would be possible. So I kind of looked at Canada and said, where would I like to go? So there was kind of Montreal or Nova Scotia or Victoria. And the funny thing, when I really reflect on it, I used to live in Victoria maybe 15 years ago, and there's beaches and parks. And I thought to myself, if it's going to be just me and a kid, I picture myself at this specific park, at this specific beach. And that's kind of what guided me here. I had no idea. So this was in November of 2019, right? So we all know how this goes. So then March of 2020, when the pandemic really started to get going, there I was five months pregnant, and I was in Victoria, so happy to not be in New York and stuck in an apartment. I got to just go hiking every day. It was quite lovely. My pregnancy was great, but then it was literally me and my kid for two years. So it was kind of an interesting thing that I was kind of saying, if it's me and a kid, but I didn't realize how much it was literally going to be me and a kid for such a long time. I had my little one, Lowe, in June of 2020, and they've just recently, just recently accepted that I live here now, and I really love it, and we have such a great community, and I think this is the best place in Canada to be, for sure.

00:06:08 – Jen Riday
I cannot imagine your initiation to, you know, single parenting at that, being right at the beginning of the pandemic. I mean, if anyone has had to practice what you teach, I'm sure it was you. But be honest, was your energy lower during that time?

00:06:26 – Jill Payne
Oh, my God. I feel like I say this in the book, but I was kind of practicing my principles before. But I lived in Costa Rica for ten years. You guys know this. I was running a gym in Costa Rica, and my biggest problem at that time was kind of like, when it's high tide, the waves are very loud. I have difficulty sleeping, and I remember, I need to say this publicly: I was working with all these moms, and I was like, you should just get up an hour earlier, get to your journal. And now then, I'm sure there's a lot of new moms that have this experience. My postpartum was not great. Most people spend, like, a night alone with their newborn. A year into it or whatever. It was like, day two for me. And I remember when they handed me to her, they handed her to me. I was like, oh, my goodness. I should have spent more time with babies. I remember buzzing the nurse being like, she's fussy. What do I do? What do I do? So then I had a friend come, and she kind of started to dance with her and showed me what to do. But I would say literally, probably those first, like, three, four months, I felt like a different human. I was not able to get myself, and literally, I felt like a different person. So then she would scream in the car, and we wouldn't sleep at all. And before I had a kid, I probably slept 8 hours a night. If I slept seven and a half, I would have been like, oh, I'm exhausted. I fully understand. I think moms, they have to have so much capacity because there's no other option. So there's just times where you're going to have to dig deep here and you're going to have to find reserves that you didn't know you had. And it's going to change who you are and how you feel and how you interact with everything in your life. So I feel like on this podcast, I feel like I'm a different person. But I like to say, it's said in the book as well, that I had to lean on my own principles. So that idea that the best business plan solves a personal problem. Instead of applying my principles when I'm in Costa Rica and just irritated by the waves, can I apply my principles when I'm like, I can't sleep, I can't exercise like I normally do, I don't get to get up and meditate. All of it I wasn't able to know. I think about, New York was like a different phase in life as well. But I used to spend like 3 hours getting myself on the right channel. I would wake up and I would journal and I would write and I would go to the gym and I would have the perfect breakfast at 11:00 I would take my first client. Right? All of a sudden I don't have 3 hours to manage my energy, but I do have these principles. So can they kind of be shifted to work in this way? I think the next book will be about energy management and parenting because we all know there's like huge burnout. There's this mental load that you carry. I didn't realize when I was speaking to parents that you just have background noise about your kids all the time. There's just so many more things happening in your brain on a daily basis that require your capacity.

00:09:48 – Jen Riday

00:09:49 – Jill Payne
I'm wondering what she's doing right now. It's lunch. Is she having a snack? All of it. And then if you have multiple kids, like for you, it must be very loud in there.

00:09:59 – Jen Riday
Well, that's why I always prescribe retreats and a quarterly at least, or if not monthly, hotel. It's like you need to actually physically separate to turn all of that off. I feel like for me.

00:10:12 – Jill Payne
Totally. Yeah. I mean, childcare is like my… I just feel I need some time to work, but also to kind of organize the house and do some exercise. You do need some time to yourself to get yourself ready to be the best self when you're around your kids, because this is what we're going to talk about. But when I have energy, when I'm with my kid, everything is more fun and more easy. And that's why I did this. That's why I had a kid, because I wanted to have that experience. But if I'm just tired all the time and I can't quite function well, it's not going to feel good.

00:10:48 – Jen Riday
Well, refresh us. I mean, we have all these great terms, detail positive, energy, diming. Just give us the quick refresher course of what you teach and some of what's in your book. Although the book goes much deeper than I've learned from you in the past.

00:11:03 – Jill Payne
Highly recommend reading. I love that because I actually feel like the book is a very simple version of what I've been talking about.

00:11:10 – Jen Riday
What I love about the book is all the examples you give and all the other experts you quote. I feel like you're having a conversation within the field of energy. So I guess that's what I mean. All the stories and examples really flesh it out, right? But give us our refresher.

00:11:29 – Jill Payne
Okay, our refresher. So I picture everything on this dime scale. So we can be a ten, we can be a zero. And again, back in the day, probably when I spoke to you the first time, I was probably kind of like, you got to be a ten all the time. If you're not a ten, I don't want to be around you. I only want to be around tens. And then again, life happens. You get hit in the face a few times and you're like, wow, we're not going to be a ten all the time. And if I'm expecting myself to be there, that's some of that kind of toxic positivity and some of the stuff I was studying before, if I wasn't a ten, I'd feel bad. But then I'd also feel bad because I don't think I should be there. So I feel like that's what I'm saying as I've kind of gone through this parenting journey and the pandemic, and it's just understanding that we are human beings and every emotion is fine. And none of them, we're not stuck with any of them. None of them are permanent. But you are going to go through a range of them, and we're humans and we want to do that. So it's not that we need to be a ten every single second of the day, but the idea is that a, someone who is at a ten at the time that they're at a ten, they are creative, joyful, inspired, resilient. I think the big word I would say now is regulated. Right. So they're responding in a way that they're proud of, which is, like, my only if I go to bed at night and I have responded in a regulated way all day, that's success. So someone who's kind of living in those states on a regular basis, the one thing they have in common, we've always talked about this, is that they have energy. So if I'm inspired and I'm confident and curious and creative and all of those big c words, I am also going to have capacity.

00:13:10 – Jen Riday

00:13:11 – Jill Payne
My favorite word is capacious. I think it's in the book. It is in the book. Capacious. Right. So that's how I want people to describe me, someone who has capacity. So when I say energy, I don't necessarily mean airy fairy chakra energy, but I also do. So we could go there, but it's really about my energy, is my capacity to get things done. So someone who's in a beautiful state on a regular basis tends to have a lot of energy and capacity. Right. So this is the most important thing. So instead of trying to manage our emotions, because this is what we're trying to do all day. Oh, now I'm anxious. That I'm anxious. How do I get happy? My emotions are changing every. I don't know about you, but mine are changing on a minute-by-minute basis. Right? So if I'm just trying to kind of chase those and figure out those, I'm going to go nuts. But if I know when I have energy, I tend to be in a better mood, then I can focus on how I manage my energy, and that will determine my mood, and that will determine how I experience whatever's happening. Right? So now, kind of the iteration of this, I would say that that scale becomes everything is about, can I be self-aware and can I be self-regulated? So not have someone say, geez, you seem anxious, but can I actually feel in my body what emotion I'm feeling? And then can I go to my toolbox and figure out what I actually need? Not what I need someone else to do, not what I need to have happen outside of myself, but within myself what I need to be regulated, right? So the scale is inside my head. I'm just constantly thinking, where am I on the scale? Where am I on the scale? And then I look at, you know, the formula from our very first podcast has not changed because it's just so good, is really what I do with my body, what I choose to focus on, and the dialogue that I use with myself. So those three things be a freaking dime. Body, focus, dialogue. Those three things, if I can manage them correctly, are going to give me more capacity, and that's going to give me more elevated emotions on a regular basis. Right? So I think what happens in parenting, there's a good example in the book, but I'm sure you can relate to this. When my kid is playing with the kitchen that I shouldn't have bought with all the pans, the Eyesore that we all have, right? When she's playing with them and it's loud, when I have capacity, I sing along with her. I make it fun. We're enjoying our time together. When I don't have capacity, I'm going to react in a way that I'm not proud of. I might get snappy, whatever, right? But the thing is, it's the same situation, but based on the capacity that I have in the moment, I respond differently. Right? So many people are saying, well, my outside conditions are creating the way that I feel, but the banging of the pants is the same outside condition, but I feel differently based on what capacity I have at the time. Right? So that's kind of the whole thing is like, we really want to figure out how can I get myself more capacity. So I'm responding to everything in a way that feels productive and fun and effective.

00:16:21 – Jen Riday
Yeah. So let's say you have a morning where you wake up feeling low just to rehash. So we know we have body, focus and dialogue. BFD. Be a freaking dime.

00:16:34 – Jill Payne
A lot of that happens often. I would say that, too. I have a three and a half year old. There's lots of moms here. Even last night was up for like an hour wanting me to rub her back. So we're still getting very interrupted. That's what I mean. I can't imagine six kids, you probably didn't sleep for like, ten years. Literally.

00:16:53 – Jen Riday
I just have really strict rules about not rubbing backs in the night. I had to, right?

00:16:59 – Jill Payne
Well, then it is. But then I end up there and I'm getting, like, frustrated. Like, that is enough. I am not rubbing your back anymore. And then I feel bad that I should be. This is the thing I'd like to think I had. Tell me your ways.

00:17:11 – Jen Riday
I think, honestly, what I did was just put them in bed with me and go back to sleep.

00:17:16 – Jill Payne
We try that, but she just holds my face and she says, is it waking up time? Is it waking up time? And then I end up there like a pancake. No talking. But still, it's that idea that, yeah, I'm not getting the sleep that I used to get. We still wake up really early. So I wake up where I'm not feeling like I used to on a regular basis, I would say. So you could.

00:17:42 – Jen Riday
If you were maybe a typical person. I don't know if there is a typical person, but you could say, right, oh, I'm a single parent. I'm never going to feel good. This is so hard. These are maybe where the brain would go.

00:17:57 – Jill Payne
Yeah. I have such a spot for single parents because that is such a thing. Because I also think there's this society narrative that single moms struggle, and it's true. Being one myself, I shouldn't swear stuff is very difficult to be a single parent. There are times, like every diaper you change, every wake-up you're dealing with. So all the finances, your responsibility. School is canceled, there's a snow day, your responsibility. And just the pressure of it feels like how she develops and how she. I can't blame anyone when she's having.

00:18:39 – Jen Riday
My problems with my husband.

00:18:42 – Jill Payne
I don't have all of those.

00:18:44 – Jen Riday
Yes. Okay.

00:18:45 – Jill Payne
Totally. Right? So I feel so focused on how she's emotionally developing and how everything I'm doing now is going to impact her in the future, which I think is, again, our generation, we have so much information about how what happens now affects what happens later. So the pressure as a single parent is, like, heavy. But if I tell that story right, so I have that circle in the book of, like, my beliefs create my energy, create my actions create my results. If my belief is single parents struggle, so then I wake up and I think my energy is not great, and then my actions aren't going to reflect that, and then I am going to struggle, and then I'm going to say, it's the truth. And that kind of belief circle is going to get more and more momentum. Right. But that's what I'm saying. I teach this on a regular basis, and I have to talk to myself clearly every morning, and I have to say, I have tools to shift this. The day is going to depend on what I do with what's happening in here. And I would say the thing that saved me, and I know it's not for everyone, but as soon as Loe was able to sit up in a stroller, we went running every morning. We still go running every morning. So I was, like, propping her up with blankets, like, doing all the things, and that became our thing. So we'd wake up early, but it wouldn't be a big deal because I had this thing to look forward to. So then in terms of body-focused dialogue, then I'm moving my body and there are days where I am tired and I don't feel like it. And this is what I would say instead of just canceling the run altogether. I'll go slower, I'll go shorter, but I'll still go. And the dialogue in my head. Thank goodness. I don't know how over time, this is the dialogue. You will feel better if you do this. And this is a great example for your daughter. I know this, that I don't have time to get into the pity party in the morning because I am just trying to figure out how to convince this kid to get in a stroller again. And then I was saying earlier when we were talking that now I stop at this coffee shop every morning and there's been these three guys that have been having coffee together for 25 years. So now we know they're there every morning. So some days it's raining and I just drop her off at the coffee shop and I go running and I come back. So now we have this community built around this morning. So my morning routine is not meditating and writing, but my morning routine is something that's like setting me up for a good day. Awesome. I think one of the ways to cut through all of that stuff is to move, right? So it doesn't have to be running. It could be walking, it could be yoga in your house. I think the power of movement, I still believe in the immense power of what movement can do for our brain. So that's just like before your brain starts going, I would just start moving your body. And then while I'm on my run, I think about, what's my focus? What's my ideal day for today? How could today go well? What am I looking forward to? So I start to think about my focus and then my dialogue. I start to speak nicely to myself. So I think, again, probably during our first podcast, we talked about my dialogue being like a Cheerleader. And now I would say it's way more leaning towards compassion, right? So my dialogue, instead of like, go for a run, you can do it, is more like, I bet you're a little sleepy, Jill, you rubbed backs for a long time last night and you're probably a little tired. But we know that we feel better when we do this. And I know that you're going to feel better after. But again, the dialogue is not making things worse and being hard on myself. The dialogue is kind of like, I have this companion, best friend who comes around with me and is supporting me in what's best for me.

00:22:36 – Jen Riday
Yeah, I love it. Again, I'd love to talk about the different dialogue things you included in your book because I felt like there were so many different ways we could have dialogue. But really quick, a lot of the popular. Well, some. I don't even want to point fingers. Okay. A lot of the popular self-help is all about thoughts, feelings, actions, and results.

00:23:00 – Jill Payne

00:23:00 – Jen Riday
Cognitive behavioral therapy. And I think I found, is this kind of why you focus on the body first? When you take care of your body, it's a lot easier to think the right thoughts. Is that why you do the body?

00:23:15 – Jill Payne
And even I've noticed the last couple of days it has been frigid. So to put Loe in a stroller, we've kind of been walking just to the coffee shop, but I've noticed my body and how I feel. Like I kind of have to say to myself, I feel a little bit off today. And it literally can correspond with, I didn't get to do that movement that I normally do. Right. So I do think that if. Well, it's like that. So maybe you wake up and you're on a channel four. On a channel four, maybe I wake up and I'm anxious. And then I think from that channel, like I need to attack that external situation that's causing my anxiety because it's not me, it's that external situation. So I'm going to call them, I'm going to send this email. So from my channel of not a lot of capacity, I'm going to try to fix my external situation, which is going to make things even more challenging for me usually. Right? Yeah. And I'm going to ruminate on it, all of that.

00:24:16 – Jen Riday
I don't know about you, but I don't make the best decisions from a low-channel place. They're not as inspired and not as great as they would be if I had fixed the energy for.

00:24:26 – Jill Payne
Here's my little hack. Jen, you're going to love this. So sometimes I'm not on a high channel, but I know myself on a high channel. I've been there long enough to know. So my question for myself often is, if I were on a high channel, how would I attend to this? Because usually you're like, well, I wouldn't be so worked up. And I would just give them an a and I wouldn't take it personally. And I would think this, this and this, and you're like, okay, great. Right. But so I think the body stuff maybe moves us from a four to a six, where we have more capacity to think differently about it. And usually, if I'm thinking about it in this ruminating way, I just put it down. So that's the idea, too. So just wait for yourself to feel better. I actually heard an interesting quote the other day. You'll like this. It said, if you can't get out of it, get more into it. So that's an interesting one for me, too. Right? I don't know if I'm not feeling good and then I've got this kid trying to get me to be the mama kitty and you're kind of trying to do other stuff. So if I can't get out of being Mama Kitty, then I'm going to get really into being Mama Kitty. I think sometimes when we're not feeling good, we're resisting what's right in front of our face, and if we could just kind of get more into what's happening. So again, it's like all this stuff using every single cell in my body. So how can I put all of my energy into being playing kitties? Instead of being frustrated that I'm being distracted right now, I have something else to do or whatever, right? So I think we need to get our energy up and then start to attend to our focus and our dialogue and also fixing the roof while it's sunny. So when you do feel good, you still practice these things. It's not like I only do these when I don't feel good. It's actually really fun to practice this when I feel good. So thinking of my ideal situation when I'm on a high channel, that is fun for me. Trying to bring a really thoughtful, compassionate person around with me is much easier when I'm on a high channel. So it's like these aren't tools that you only use when you're not feeling well. These are tools that you're using all the time so that when you're not feeling well, they're easier to use.

00:26:45 – Jen Riday
Yeah, for sure. So with dialogue, a lot of people, I've noticed, starting out, I see this in my young adult children. They often don't want to have anything to do with self-help or positive stuff because their mom does it, but depends on the day.

00:27:04 – Jill Payne
Someday, you don't know what seeds you're planting. Someday.

00:27:08 – Jen Riday
One of my sons, though, I would say, hey, you could look at it this way. Here's a different story. And he would always come back to, no, this is my personality, Mom. I'm like, no, it's not.

00:27:22 – Jill Payne
You're choosing.

00:27:23 – Jen Riday
That is an interesting thing.

00:27:25 – Jill Payne
I've had this conversation before.

00:27:27 – Jen Riday
Expanded way in your book. You talk about all the different work with dialogue to change.

00:27:33 – Jill Payne
Are you there?

00:27:34 – Jen Riday
You think about things. I guess the way he's doing that we know not to blame our circumstances, but what if we're thinking it is genetics? How do we uplevel?

00:27:43 – Jill Payne
Oh, I love this. So this is a great question. So I have someone who said, what if your personality is a two?

00:27:51 – Jen Riday
How depressing.

00:27:51 – Jill Payne
I disagree. I disagree. This is what's so great about energy management. So my energy is determined by my body, my focus, my dialogue. I didn't say genetics in there at all. I didn't say personality. Good, right? So it's like my energy is determined by literally what I'm doing with my body, what I'm focused on, and the dialogue I have. So your personality is separate?

00:28:14 – Jen Riday

00:28:14 – Jill Payne
So your personality is not on the scale. Your energy is on the scale. So it's that idea that I can increase my energy and have any personality that I want. Right. So it's just about really looking at those three, really.

00:28:32 – Jen Riday
You know, you think about Eeyore. He believed the story that he was depressed. I think sometimes we can get stuck in believing our energy level is personality. So you're just saying it's not. It's separate. That's it.

00:28:47 – Jill Payne
It's separate. Well, and the same thing. And my life over the last few years, I think that you can be heartbroken and still have energy. It's like that idea that when you're a little bit sick, you're like, and now I'm also supposed to be a little bit whiny, but my energy doesn't have to go with my circumstances. Do you know what I'm saying? So I can be heartbroken and be on a high channel. I can have a cold and be on a high channel because that stuff doesn't affect my body and my focus and my dialogue, because those are daily choices that I'm making.

00:29:23 – Jen Riday

00:29:23 – Jill Payne
Right. So I love that. So again, well, I'm a single parent. I'm supposed to be on a two. I'm supposed to struggle, but no, I'm going to manage my body, my focus, my dialogue, and I'm going to get myself as high as I can at any time because I'm always controlling those. Those are my choices. Whereas, my circumstances, I might not have a choice. Yeah, that makes sense.

00:29:44 – Jen Riday
All the ways you could apply that phrase. I have six kids, and I can be a ten.

00:29:50 – Jill Payne

00:29:51 – Jen Riday
And I can be a ten. I have an autistic spouse…

00:29:53 – Jill Payne
Well, this is it. But this is the best part. This is the best part. You're not going to change any of your circumstances from a low channel?

00:29:59 – Jen Riday

00:30:00 – Jill Payne
So I can be a struggling mom and still be on a high channel because from that high channel, everything's going to be easier. Right. So I always say when we have energy, that energy will handle everything, but we always try to focus on everything that's not working. Right. So the reason I'm on a low channel is all of these because I have a business to run and I have a kid to feed and the inflation and the groceries and whatever, right? So I can kind of try to fix all of those things that I have no control over, which is going to steal so much of my energy and actually not work. Or I can say I can't control any of those things, but when I'm on a high channel, I interact with those things.

00:30:42 – Jen Riday

00:30:42 – Jill Payne
So what I can control is the energy that I show up with. And it's even just your voice. I remember Oprah said – I think it's Oprah – she said, “The biggest thing you can do is how you interact with your kid when you first see them, that shows them that they're important.” Right? But again, when I'm tired. So now we have the little grow clock, right? So it turns green. She knows she can get up, so she'll come into my room when the light turns green. And it could be the worst sleep ever. But I'm still going to say, good morning, sunshine. I'm going to decide to use my voice in a certain way that's going to let her know that that's the other thing I've really noticed. It's weird that we have certain things from our childhood. So it seems like it's really important for me for my house to be relatively organized because to me that shows my kid that there's an adult here who has the capacity. Maybe my house as a kid was very chaotic. So for whatever reason, now I feel like I want to show her that her parent has energy and is capable of caring for her and that she is safe. That's going to come from my voice, but all of it, if I'm in survival mode, it's going to be very hard to parent. So everyone asks me about parenting and energy management, and it's literally like, how do I get myself enough energy? And then I'll be more insightful and more available for my kid, right. Instead of just trying to focus on my kid and not worry. Because as women, I think that's kind of what we're taught to do. It's like, sacrifice yourself for your kid. But that's actually not going to be helpful for your kid either.

00:32:25 – Jen Riday
Yeah, well, and with that, the idea of sacrificing yourself when you're in a partnership or married. Because what if you're aiming to be a high channel person, like a ten and they're a five. I guess I found myself sometimes stuck in the idea that they're pulling my energy down. But is that true?

00:32:44 – Jill Payne
Yes. Well, I feel like this is like the biggest question I get after I do my talks is that someone will put their hand up and say, I'm fine, I'm a ten. But it's the people around me. And what I always say is that if I was really on a high channel, people could be on other channels and it wouldn't affect me. Right. So the fact that it affects me shows that I don't have as much energy as that's so. And even the belief that I can be brought down by someone else. Is that true? Let's. Byron, Katie, that. Is that like. No, I'm still in control of my body, my focus, my dialogue. But I think we're like. But I love him and I'm supposed to be responsible for him. And if he's sad, I can't be happy. And these are all beliefs that we have to question. So I think the most loving thing we can do for someone who's not feeling good is remain on our high channel where we have resources to help them.

00:33:34 – Jen Riday
So true. I mean it brings to mind that phrase a lot of people in my circles use, which is in a marriage from the Bible, there's that phrase you should be equally yoked. And I've heard a lot of people apply it that you've got to lower your energy to match theirs. But then you're just reducing your capacity to solve problems. So you're saying expand your energy. And even in a yolk, if you had a couple of oxen, there's always a stronger one and there's always a weak.

00:34:02 – Jill Payne
Totally, it's okay. Totally. I would also say now I would say it's going to shift as things go, right? So one day maybe you're the three and they're the high channel or vice versa. So to think that you're always on the high channel, I don't think that's true either. But the person on the high channel who's responding in love and is reminding themselves that they really care about this person and their ideal situation is this, this and this. And they can speak to themselves nicely about all of that. But to say I'm on the high channel in this moment, so it's my responsibility and my honor to like, I'm not just trying to get on a high channel so I can just enjoy myself. I'm trying to get on a high channel so I can impact those who I care about. Right. So there's that scale in the book that goes detail positive, detail negative, generally negative, neutral, generally positive. And I always say this is probably new content since I spoke to you last time, but if someone comes, so say your husband comes home and he's always detail negative, and you start to say, oh, you're too negative, I can't talk to you. That is not loving, that is not effective. That is not going to create any shift in him or any connection in the two of you. So what I realized is why does someone get detail negative? Why do you think someone gets detail negative, Jen Riday?

00:35:30 – Jen Riday
Poor energy.

00:35:32 – Jill Payne
Poor energy. But I think also they want the person they're speaking to to acknowledge them. So there's this piece where if I just throw a solution at them, they're going to be like, Jill's not listening to me. She doesn't get right. And then they're going to go more detailed. Right? So the more I kind of don't acknowledge it, the more detailed they go because they think I don't understand or I'm not listening or they're going to go find someone else and get more detailed. So it's the idea that to be able to catch them and say, wow. So you have to make it creative so you don't sound so scripted, but it sounds like your day didn't go how you planned and that that meeting was really challenging. And I bet you're feeling this, this and this. And then they're like, boom, they understand me. And then you can offer the like, but if you keep talking about it, you're only going to feel worse. I love you too much to let you go there. What could we do for the next hour that's going to make you feel better? What's your ideal situation? Do you want to go for a walk? So we can't receive any of those kind of tips. But I think what happens is someone gets negative and we either say, tell me more about that. Look, I'm being a good partner. Tell me more, tell me more. And I had this kind of day and we just kind of unload on each other. So we're both bringing ourselves down and then we're not feeling good. Right. So it's just like understanding that your job is like to really try that when someone's being detail negative. One sentence to say, I hear you, I understand you probably feel this and then say, but from all these places. And the thing I'll say, too, there's certain things that we get detail negative about that we have zero control over, that we can't change. Also noticing, another thing I would say in partnership is when you are feeling detail negative, this is like kind of boundaries. But to say, so if we're friends, we're going to chat with each other all the time. I'm going to say, Jen Riday, do you have the capacity, I'm about to go detail negative about something that has nothing to do with you. Do you have the capacity to hear it and then you actually have to say yes or you actually have to say no. Jill's not a good time. Right. So I have to ask you and then you have to give me permission because I think what's worse is just kind of getting detail negative, like focusing on what's not working all day without noticing you're even doing it, and that being your only way to connect with others. So I think asking is a nice way to kind of. You really have to commit to want to do that, to ask someone. But I just think we need to get out of that. And I get it again, I think there's so much here with parenting, with mom friends, it's easy to start to talk about sleep or to kind of complain about the stuff that's hard because they understand it. But I actually had a conversation with a friend the other day about what is good about this age instead of what's so challenging. Because I think if you don't watch yourself, your mind focuses on what's so challenging about this time with your kids as well. Right. So it's like to kind of be able to shift your focus as well to say, what's my favorite thing about this age? Yeah, she still wants to cuddle with me before bed. There's going to be times you're in this whole other stage where you're probably not getting cuddles before bed. So to just really be able to focus on what's actually good about right now instead of just constantly having conversations about what's challenging. Again, yes, get detail negative if you're talking to someone who's going to provide a really insightful insight, something that's going to shift you. But I think sometimes we just use it as ways to connect. But there's so many other ways to connect.

00:39:27 – Jen Riday
And you mentioned the boundary. If someone in your life doesn't have the wisdom to know, to ask, hey, is it a good time for me to be detail negative? But they do it anyway. There's always the mother-in-law or whatever. Debbie Downer, the person in your life, you can just have the boundary anyway and say, that was not a good time. Can we talk about something else?

00:39:53 – Jill Payne

00:39:54 – Jen Riday
I can't really talk right now just to protect it. It doesn't mean you have to cut your life, I suppose, is what you're saying.

00:40:00 – Jill Payne
Totally. And I do find it interesting that I don't get a lot of those types of people. I don't know if that's because I always do have this conversation.

00:40:08 – Jen Riday
Agreed. That's exactly what I want to talk about. There's a quote in your book. So when you're talking about channel, you're talking about energetic vibration, right?

00:40:17 – Jill Payne
Can you, if we want to really get into it, since we're not in a corporate setting, yes. I'm talking about the frequency that you're on, the vibration that you're emanating on a ten. We're feeling elevated emotions. So I think we don't have to get into the details, but joy obviously has more energy and frequency than sadness. So yes, we're looking at a different frequency on a different channel.

00:40:45 – Jen Riday
Yes, I'll read this quote I've been wanting to read, but essentially this quote is talking about how energy – like attracts like. So here's the quote from your book on page 32. “All things in our universe are constantly in motion, vibrating. Even objects that appear to be stationary are, in fact, vibrating, oscillating, resonating at various frequencies. Resonance is a type of motion characterized by oscillation between two states. And ultimately all matter is just vibrations of various underlying fields. An interesting phenomenon occurs when different vibrating things and processes come into proximity. They will often start, after a little time to vibrate together at the same frequency. They sync up, sometimes in ways that can seem mysterious. This is described today as the phenomenon of spontaneous self-organization.” So putting that in layperson speak, explain how our energy people the same. You said you don't really attract those Debbie Downer types. I find that is the same for me. I don't attract people with poor, unhealthy boundaries. They just know I'm not going to participate in it. They don't want to deal with mean.

00:41:58 – Jill Payne
It's interesting how that actually happened, because I don't also feel like I'm actually saying that to anyone. But I do think I do work in the corporate world quite a bit. So that's a good example of, like, these aren't necessarily your chosen people. You could think you just end up in a room with them, but I'm sure, again, there's some sort of matching that takes place. Right. So I always say, how do you know you're a match? Because you're like. Because it's here, righ?. So anytime there is something, I guess if I did start to hang out with a lot of Debbie downers, I'd have to look at myself, right, and not say, geez, everyone's complaining so much. I'd have to say, why are they complaining with me? Because I can't control their complaining. Right. But yeah, so I would say eventually what I find happens more often in friend groups is if I'm kind of hovering around a five, then I'm going to be swayed by the people that I'm around. So I always say that five is kind of you're hopeful at a five and then at six you're optimistic and at four you're frustrated. So lots of people hover around those three. So it could be about their health or their marriage. Oh, I'm hopeful. It's really optimistic. Something good is happening and then, oh, it's not working. So you're going to bounce around those three. But it's never bad enough to do anything about and it's never amazing, but it just stays in that little. But if I'm there just in general on a regular basis, then the person I end up sitting next to at work who complains often or doesn't like the boss or has an issue with the culture, or I'm going to be swayed by them because I'm at a frequency that is not solid or. Yeah, I think that vibration does start to match each other when we're thinking… And Abraham Hicks says this, Abraham is still one of my favorites, but someone on a high channel is more powerful than thousands on a low know. So just understanding that high, I, this isn't in the science of it, but I'm sure if there's a super high vibration, a lower vibration, chances are that vibration is going to come up to the higher one and not the higher one. Go down to the lower one. Right. So I think it's just, again, understanding that I don't need to be, and I hate to say it sucked into this, but I think you just have choices. We always have choices. What I decide to focus on, what I decide to say with my words, and your words become the house you live in. So it's just like I can decide to. And that's just it. Again, I want to be clear. It's not that there aren't things to complain about. There are things to complain about. So things are challenging. Right? I 100% will agree, but it's not that they're not justified and they're not true. But my focus upon them is not helpful.

00:44:52 – Jen Riday

00:44:53 – Jill Payne
My focus upon them is not going to. It's not going to bring me different kinds of people. I always say, now we're kind of getting into this whole idea of the different stages. So this book is all talking about stage one, managing your energy, getting fertile soil. Stage two is about, what do I want? Where am I going? How do I get it? Right? So we want to look at where are we going with our life? What's the ideal situation? I want to think into the future. My vision. So that idea of like, yeah, people want to buy into a vision. I work with a lot of sports teams now, right? And this idea of, like, we could tell someone they're not in shape, but all of that is not going to make them change their actions. But if I can say what I see for you, the vision I see for you, what I see is possible for you. Right. So I think ourselves are the same. So focusing on my lack of money is not going to get me more money. But if I have a vision that's compelling, that I can sell myself a vision that's compelling. Right. Then that's going to actually get me out of that. Right. So if we're just talking about what's not working, that's not going to change anything. We want to use that idea of, like, what's not working is contrast, which is inspiring. What I. So if I don't have a lot of money, what that's showing me is I would like to have some stability. I would like to have freedom. I would like to feel like this. So your contrast is inspiring this new desire. So a better conversation amongst friends would be okay. Your boss is negative and your colleagues are gossiping. What is it that you do want then? What is this job and culture that you do want? And can you focus more on that? Okay. Your husband is not helpful. I feel like there's this whole thing, too where around the Christmas holidays and stuff, too. I think a lot of people in relationships, business part. There are some good things about being single. Right. When I come out of putting my daughter to bed and the kitchen is not clean. I don't have anyone to be mad at. I just have expectations. I know it's going to look like it did when I left it. So I think there's that whole thing too, of just understanding. If I'm focusing on all of that constantly, that's not going to make anyone want to change. So again, it's like selling the vision of what's possible, imagining for yourself how you do want to feel. All of that just breeds more of the same, and nobody feels good.

00:47:39 – Jen Riday

00:47:45 – Jill Payne
That sounds quite trite. And when things are really hard to just say, well, what is it that you do want? But I guarantee focusing on what you don't want is not going to change it. And the reason it's there is to inspire this new desire. So if we focus on it all day, it's not going to move us up to what's possible.

00:48:06 – Jen Riday

00:48:07 – Jill Payne
Easier said than done. And that's what I mean. There may be like, months or years that you're focused on what's not working and then it clicks and you say, I can't talk about this anymore. I need to talk about my vision more than my worry. I need to talk about my future more than my present. I need to talk about where I'm going instead of where I am, for sure, because my energy goes where my attention is. So it's just about. That's why stage two, this idea, if I have a clear vision and mission and a future self that I'm excited about, that also gives me more energy in the present moment. Right? So that's what I'm about. What do I need to do today to get myself the most energy possible so that when I reflect back on this time of my life, I am proud of my actions. And I feel this, that as a parent, my kid is too important for me to just indulge myself, know, to sit and listen to sad songs. But we do it. I've had an interesting experience. We're getting deep here, Jill, but my dad actually passed away at the beginning of December. So this is also another whole piece of, like, there's a grief I'm trying to parent, and everyone who's lost a parent understands this. Kind of like, some days you're good and some days you're not. But I've kind of realized with energy management, I've actually worked with lots of people who've had grief. And this idea that when I have more energy, I feel super connected to him. I feel his presence more. When I'm on a low, I remember the good times I can connect with the parts that I love when I'm on a low channel, then I feel the lack of. I feel the sadness of again. So I'm not saying I am not living on a beach in Costa Rica, right? Are there ,struggles that I am attending to myself but it's just understanding that. So I could either focus on how he's not here, how sad that was, or I could focus on what did I learn from him? What did I learn from him? What were the best parts? What were the things I want to remember? What's his legacy? All of those things. So it's again, my focus and how do I speak to myself about it? I'll never feel the same. No, I can speak to myself in a way. So everything, whatever we're going through using these things is going to shift the amount of available capacity I have to handle everything in my life.

00:50:39 – Jen Riday
It's beautiful. So it's worth, It's worth the investment of time. Even though you don't do 3 hours now, you can accomplish a lot with just five minutes or your run and then noticing your thoughts, you can do it quickly.

00:50:52 – Jill Payne
I think it was probably the same but I am still full of loose leaf all over the place. So I will throw on a Gabby's doll house for ten minutes so I can just write out my ideal situation for the day. That's the thing. And now I can almost just do it inside my own head. So I don't necessarily I can be driving to school and thinking about that, but I also think when I'm having fun, when I'm being myself with my kid, I also have more energy. So I'm a big fan of like, well, what song are we going to listen to in the car? Everything is about how would I make this fun? You know what I mean? I want her to know that she has an energetic parent who created a fun time. Not just because I want her to have fun, but I want to have fun.

00:51:38 – Jen Riday
Yeah. Well, this has been awesome. Jill, I love it. Your book is fantastic. Everyone, get the book.

00:51:45 – Jill Payne
Yeah. What I would say, Jen Riday is my biggest tip is to do this with a friend. So you want to have somebody who understands the language so that when you're having a moment they can help you deconstruct it. So it's an isolating journey and you'll get more out of it if you have someone to. And I would even pick if you have a negative Nancy friend, do it with. Nice. Yeah. There's a loving, supportive type of language that you can use with them to help them get out of it, right?

00:52:20 – Jen Riday
And you have tons of workbook exercises in the back. So this is a hands-on book.

00:52:27 – Jill Payne
Yeah. There's also a QR code on the very last page that takes you to an online dashboard, and that is the dashboard that I use with my one-on-one coaching clients. So that has weekly videos, daily audios, a full workbook, the full journal. It's all. It's not just about the book. It's about the whole.

00:52:52 – Jen Riday
Thanks, Jill. Oh, I love how you're living your purpose.

00:52:57 – Jill Payne
Really. I wonder what I'll be doing next time. We know. I kind of want to do, like, a Ted Lasso and go work with a professional sports team in Europe. That's why.

00:53:08 – Jen Riday
Well, this was awesome. I appreciate it, and we'll have you on again next time. Thanks, Jill.

00:53:12 – Jill Payne
Okay. Can't wait. Yes. Love you guys. Have a great day. Be a dime.

00:53:17 – Jen Riday
Did you love it? I loved it. I have some notes here that I was kind of taking while I listened, things I'm going to apply. Use Jill's QR code in her book. First. Get the book, be a dime. Go get the QR code in the back and go get this free stuff on her website that she has only ever offered to her clients. I think that's really generous of her and really, really awesome. Some thoughts to leave you with, which Jill shared. Contrast inspires a new desire. When you have something you don't like, be grateful because it's showing you what you don't want so you can better formulate what you do want. Love that thought by Jill. Another favorite thought. That phrase. What I see for you, not what you're doing wrong, but what I see for you is holding up the possibility for what you think could be possible for your kids, your spouse. What I see for you is happiness and joy and coming home and making me a lovely dinner. I'm just kidding. I've been wanting to renovate some things in our house, like, literally, with my own hands. Renovate things. This makes my husband anxious. Interestingly, I tried this principle, what I see for you, and it worked. I said, “What I see for you is coming home from work and maybe you cook some dinner because you love to cook, but really not having to worry about anything in the house because I'm our fixit person. You'll have these beautiful new doors on this room and this beautiful new kitchen cabinet. I see this for you, and you don't even have to participate. All you have to do is say, yeah, Jen, you've got this, and be confident in me.” I created a vision for him. He was all in. Suddenly, after months of him saying, “I don't think you have the skills to do this renovation.” He's like, “Okay, I can see it. Let's go for it. What's the worst that could happen?” So that phrase, what I see for you, try that this week. So once more, my favorite takeaways: 1) Contrast inspires a new desire. And 2) use the phrase, what I see for you. 3) Get Jill's book. There's so much more in there. Lots of great stories. I love Jill and I loved her book, and I can't wait for her next one. My friends, thanks for being here on the podcast. I love you. I think you're amazing. What I see for you is greater joy, greater capacity for joy and connection and spirituality and all the things that come with better energy. What I see for you is a more vibrant and happy life. You've got this. I'll see you again next time. Until then, make it a vibrant and happy week. Take care. 

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